Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Thank you for kindly providing OST with wet tissue halftracks without reinforcing ability (really useful) and ruining Stormtroopers - a change that nobody ever asked for.

I was thinking how one can make them even less less useful and less historical, but thankfully, fantasy flame granades are there to answer instead of the good old bundled granade that was actually useful even in its nerfed state.

Thankfully, Allied changes are far more easy to overviews - buffing AND decreasing price seems to be the main theme there.

Personally, I think having Ost infantry with smokes is really nice to have now, and the 250 HT is essentially a beefier WC51 now, all I think it should need is passive capping power.

I also like how you left out Forward HQs now being 2CP, effectively killing 60% of the FHQ cheese openings. nice touch there buddy.

I mean that's just red flag, siren, defcon 1. Say you put it up vs the Ost P4, load the HVAP. You run into these stats:

Ost P4:
Target size: 22
Pen: 125/115/110
Accuracy: 0.05/0.0375/0.025
Reload: 5.3/5.7
Armor: 180
Moving accuracy debuff: 0.5

76mm Sherman:
Target size: 22
Pen: 220/180/165
Accuracy: 0.06/0.425/0.035
Reload: From 4.1/4.5 -> 5.6/6.0
Armor: 160
Moving accuracy debuff: 0.75

Oof.

Okay, well now I can see how the ability can cause problems. However, I think a bigger HVAP-specific RoF nerf would make HVAP useless because of the huge difference in DPS. Perhaps a nerf of the base RoF, since 76mm HVAP was historically very effective.

Oof.

Okay, well now I can see how the ability can cause problems. However, I think a bigger HVAP-specific RoF nerf would make HVAP useless because of the huge difference in DPS. Perhaps a nerf of the base RoF, since 76mm HVAP was historically very effective.

But base RoF is the entire point of the tank. IMO re-increasing the fuel would be better because it’s supposed to be sort of a ez8/okw p4 tier tank anyway. That way you can still sort of have packs of them but they’re not one on one overly cost efficient.

As for the 76mm sort of seal clubbing ost p4s, I don’t see that as that huge of a problem since panthers pretty much seal club Cromwells and Shermans. Obviously the panther to Cromwell/sherman cost ratio is much different but the 76mm is a lot less tough and therefore a bit easier to counter when supporting elements of an army are considered (and not just in a rank 1v1 vacuum). Maybe a slight cp increase along with fuel increase if it’s too drastic would solve that issue.

Edit: actually, even the okw p4 pretty handily beats the Sherman and Cromwell too, so that’s an even better comparison. Cost ratio is still a little higher but okw p4 is also slightly better against infantry too.

Way to miss my point completely, Osttruppen wasnt nerfed instead Defensive was simply made into better Osttruppen.

Also KV-2 changes went under the radar for pretty much everyone, it's fire rate in siege mode went from to 6 to 9, thats a huge nerf.
Nerfing its pen in tank mode you risk making it potentially even worse than prior to rework, considering people would not risk that tank in direct combat with such low pen, meaning it will be stuck in siege mode with firing 50% slower than before.

which is highly welcome. Plus freshly added weaker penetration and 2 cp forward hq - finally this commnader looks like it's in a good spot and gets my full blessing.

German defensive doctrine: I think its in a good spot, the concret bunkers are nice but the suppression of them is way too strong somehow? (bug?)
Also the repair bunkers are weird, Pioneers going one by one for a vehicle repair (which makes the repair time realy slow) while the others dont do anything.

I still think, as others have pointed out, that the Stug E is, while it is a good and cool tank, not supposed to be in a defensive doctrine. Maybe replace the Stug with a Riegelmine or something?

German Infantry: I actualy like the new stormtroopers, but I can imagine that many people dont or are used to the old stormtroopers. Maybe give them a STG package which gives them STG+ bundle grenades, so people still have the choice to use the older stormtroopers instead of the new (cool and good) ones.


I have the impression, that the Sherman AP rounds are a bit tough to deal with as pzIV. The reload of both the PZ IV and the Sherman seem to be on par, while the shermans accuracy and Pen are way more consistent. The sherman is squishier though, but last game my opponent just kept his Sherman tank as far back as he could and used it like a Tank Destroyer vs my PZ IV, effectively denying the use of my PZ IV.

Thank you for kindly providing OST with wet tissue halftracks without reinforcing ability (really useful) and ruining Stormtroopers - a change that nobody ever asked for.

Hate to break it to you Kurfürst but that type of halftrack has never in CoH2 history, ever provided reinforcement capabilities.

plz give me "hetzr", i dont want "flammpazer hetzr" , why cant give me normal "hetzr" ?

Hate to break it to you Kurfürst but that type of halftrack has never in CoH2 history, ever provided reinforcement capabilities.

Soviet M5 Halftrack, since the start of CoH2's history.

Hate to break it to you Kurfürst but that type of halftrack has never in CoH2 history, ever provided reinforcement capabilities.

Both halftracks provided reinforcements after upgrade for a few years. It is quite a recent change to remove that.

Soviet M5 Halftrack, since the start of CoH2's history

You should compare it to the Soviet M3A1 Halftrack that gets usually used as a clowncar it has a similar size and prize and fills a similar role.

Another topic: could the Stug (III) Ausf. E get tied to tech similar to the Sdkfz. 234 Puma in the Mobile Defense Doctrine - otherwise one Call-In Meta will get replaced with a new one as the current Mechanized Assault Doctrine seems quite appealing for 1v1 games if you like PaK40 walls and do not like to pay for teching costs.

-Stormtroopers are now equipped with smoke grenades and a special incendiary grenade; the incendiary grenade is similar to the Volksgrenadier incendiary grenade, but does additional damage to caches. Grenades do not share a cooldown.
-Camouflage now matches those used by commandos.
-Bundle Grenade removed.

Aren't we ending with all Axis infantry doesn't have share cooldown with their grenades and all allied infantry does have?

I am still no fan of 250's MG, 251 would fit roul better. By removing the MGs, gunner and closing the netting of standard 251 in T2. And by making better hull-down animation.

Aren't we ending with all Axis infantry doesn't have share cooldown with their grenades and all allied infantry does have?

I think a flame grenade and smoke grenade aren't as strong as a smoke grenade (that might provide yellow cover for better ambushes against tacmap players) with following he grenades that might wipe team weapons without any further damage.
I would prefer all infiltration units to use flame or stun grenades as you can react to them way better.

Maybe i'm missing something...but why would someone ever get anything but 76mm Sherman ?

OKW:
- The medi-kits of 221 and 223 are kind of confusing, because Sturmpios can make them too, also without Vet. Remove it or replace it with something else, like a capture-mode. (223 should lose the ability)

I think the idea of healing is fine. I actually like it as the 221/223 can easily drive around to different squads. However, the current implementation of dropping a stack of 3 medcrates is impractical for this purpose of frontline healing. I think it should either drop one crate at a time or it should be able to select one squad for healing (like OST medpacks).

Either resource buff or spot ability should be removed IMHO, 223 is insanely powerful.
Preferably resource thing since it doesn't fit Elite Armor and the 223 is meant to replace relay signal.

OSTHEER:
- Remove the MGs of normal Sdkfz 251 (noone will miss them, the vehicle is mainly used as refresh and flamer) and replace the 250 with the 251 with MGs.

That would look and feel better, also the blue-print of 251 has a MG-shield.

Edit: Better give 250 with Pgrens and Grens passive Vet for increased speed and quick repair.

Edit: Concrete Bunker are great, but the MG is bugged, also the pios. MG has insta suppression and Pios have wrong path-finding and don't stop the repair animation.

OKW:
- The medi-kits of 221 and 223 are kind of confusing, because Sturmpios can make them too, also without Vet. Remove it or replace it with something else, like a capture-mode. (223 should lose the ability)

Hmmm or maybe:

221 Can only capture territory

Medical Carrier upgrade - Allows it to plop down medical bags (and smoke?).

Logistik Car upgrade - Allows it to lockdown territory, can still capture as well.

Command Car upgrade - Grants access to the Signal Relay and smoke(?).

Or the smoke can remain a vet 1 ability I don't really mind it.

The current state of a patch is really good. I seriously cannot wait to be released. Most of annotations and reflection of a community was includes some way or another. It adds a lot of fresh units and abilities. So good job bteam.

Although i have few things i would look at:

1. concrete bunkers - mainly how will it work after fixing all bugs,

2. 76mm sherman- HVAP is a cool addition but really powerfull on a paper. Can do a lot for a sherman for 120 fuel.

3. Commissar -"Now able to heal nearby infantry within 15m when out of combat which matches Infantry Section medical kits; passive ability." - Great, so now it can heal and have a retreat it, have 3 combat abilities and grenade (Record in number of abilities). Shouldn't heal costs ammo?(like ostheer 15 ammo per use or brits 30 ammo for an upgrade or drops med kits for 45 ammo).

4. Sturmtiger - still units underperform. I really think it should be removed in a place of Tiger. ST would fit more in december commanders with more suited abilities. Sturmtiger is a problematic unit - hard to balance. Or you make it OP or UP. Better solution is to simply replace it with something else.

5. vet 5 LeFH - Veterancy 5 - Allows single fire direct shot up to 50m could be replace with a flare shot to show the position of a enemy. Would more fit overwatch there commander and could be usefull recon ability much more usefull than "single fire direct shot".

6. The medi-kits of 221 and 223 are kind of confusing, because Sturmpios can make them too, also without Vet. Other solution to heal but not by medkits would by highly welcome.

Expect above i don't see any concerns.

What about making the HVAP rounds a 20-50 fuel upgrade for the Sherman 76? This would make it a Panzer IV equivalent by default (as its price would suggest) but buying this upgrade would put it at Panther gun level (as the upgrade price would then suggest) - allowing good scalability that is healthy for balance. Perhaps add a small armor bonus too.

Reminds me of CoH1's Sherman 76mm upgrade.

What about making the HVAP rounds a 20-50 fuel upgrade for the Sherman 76? This would make it a Panzer IV equivalent by default (as its price would suggest) but buying this upgrade would put it at Panther gun level (as the upgrade price would then suggest) - allowing good scalability that is healthy for balance. Perhaps add a small armor bonus too.

Reminds me of CoH1's Sherman 76mm upgrade.

Why wouldn't you just get a cheaper jackson with 50% more range then?

76mm was made into cheaper ez8, now its being made into AI capable low range jackson.
This unit is all over the place and completely out of place.