Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

For one thing, demos are 2 times as expensive as the stormtrooper flamenade, and for another thing, they’re practically useless in this patch. By at least allowing them to kill caches it’d give it one form of utility that really never should have been taken away....

The grenade does not kill a cache, Demo charge does it also kills a bunker (if I remember correctly. The utility has not been taken away, one simply needs to wait for CD to pass, it has become a bit more tricky to pull off.

Saying the new stormtroopers overlap with pgrens with ambush camo is a little silly for a couple reasons. First and foremost, having commando-type camo opens up wayyy more possibilities than ambush camouflage. There’s no way you could pull off the same things commandos (and now stormtroopers) can with ambush camo pgrens. In addition, they have mp40s instead of stgs which makes them a little better at ambushing IMO because they have better close range dps (better midrange dps on stgs is irrelevant if you close with the enemy in camo and engage them at minimum range as commandos do). Storms also get smokes and a different nade as well as tactical assault for wiping stuff on retreat better than pgrens could (not that pgrens are bad at that).

I am sorry to say but you analysis is based on flawed assumptions.

Facts:
Pg camouflage was improved in DBP and it allows them to move when cloaked
Pg get a first strike bonus that St.T do not
Pg get an elite grenade which has allot more shock value than the flame grenade
St44 has great DPS both close and mid so they can continue firing on infantry even after they hit the retreat button.
Pg can sprint

Pgs can actually set an ambush quite effectively.

The main thing St.T have is tactical movement which is great but comes with 3 drawbacks, it increases their own size to 1.5, slows them down and the effect linger even if they run in trouble and have to retreat. The ability is more effective when used against retreating infantry.

Commandos are simply way better at ambush combining 5 men, elite grenade, high moving DPS and a vet speed bonus.

Actually I have little to add on subject, imo commandos are already a great unit and do not need further buffs, they are out of scope and the argument the "grass is greener on the other side" is basically flawed.

Saying the new stormtroopers overlap with pgrens with ambush camo is a little silly for a couple reasons. First and foremost, having commando-type camo opens up wayyy more possibilities than ambush camouflage. There’s no way you could pull off the same things commandos (and now stormtroopers) can with ambush camo pgrens. In addition, they have mp40s instead of stgs which makes them a little better at ambushing IMO because they have better close range dps (better midrange dps on stgs is irrelevant if you close with the enemy in camo and engage them at minimum range as commandos do). Storms also get smokes and a different nade as well as tactical assault for wiping stuff on retreat better than pgrens could (not that pgrens are bad at that).

You're completely right with that paragraph. I've been playing against/with the stormtroopers in the mod in 2on2 games regularly, and they have been providing countless unique solutions to game-play situations. They're fun distinct units. It feels like the designers are hitting towards the right doctorinal spot with them. As you say, a bit better close range DPS and the unit is good to roll out!

Here's an overview of all my feedback on OKW's Elite Armor doctrine.

First of all, great job so far. This commander is really shaping up to be a very good one.


Elite Armor

[0 CP] 221 / 223

• Great addition to the OKW faction roster. Helps OKW counter MG and sniper strats and offers lots of utility.

• I think the cost should be adjusted to 200MP/20FU, in comparison to OST's 222 (200MP/30FU). 223 upgrade can be increased to 120MP/10FU to keep total cost for the mobile cache the same.

• Rather than the 25% durability bonus at vet4, I would propose the ability to engage aircraft (vet4). This would help OKW with T3 (mech) strats with some mobile AA.

• The healing is nice but the stack of 3x crates makes it awkward to use on the front lines (you rarely need more than one crate). It would be much more practical if it drops one crate at a time or can select a squad for healing (like OST's medkits). 15-20MU per crate/heal.

[4 CP] Emergency Repairs

• This ability is in a really good spot right now. Low cost and quite a significant yield. Very useful to get vehicles back into battles a bit faster.

[7 CP] HEAT Shells

• Great ability, good as it is.

[8 CP] Panzer Commander

• Good overhaul, ability is really useful now and definitely worth the trade with pintle mount.
  

• While the current implementation of the PC's Artillery Barrage is very useful, it does devastating damage against tanks because it is so concentrated. See https://www.coh2.org/topic/82569/commander-revamp-patch-bug-list/post/699991. Would propose to spread out shells a bit more.

[11 CP] Sturmtiger

• Unit is in a pretty decent spot right now, but requires some Quality Of Life improvements:

• Please have a look at its veterancy requirements, they seem way too high. When used in its intended role against infantry it barely gains any veterancy.

• Buff vet1 ability or replace it with something more useful. Perhaps -20% aiming time or a smoke launcher.

• Decrease range on hull MG so it doesn't fire at max range and reveals the Sturmtigers position (spoiling the element of surprise) before it can fire the rocket.

• Please consider removing light cover collision from the rocket. This unit is already very micro heavy and clumsy to use, and after going through all the trouble of manually reloading and planning the next attack it's very annoying when the rocket detonates prematurely just because there was a small bush or fence in the way. If this isn't possible, decrease the random scatter a bit so avoiding cover with the shot is actually in the player's control.

Thx for this very informative and constructive post! There's not much more to say about Elite Armor but i would like to complement the thoughts about the Sturmtiger.
Imo it's ok that the ST doesn't one shot mediums anymore but i think he should BE REALLY strong against ALL british enplacements.
But if you let him fire on 17-pounder, mortar and Bofor you get very different results. The Sturmtiger nearly one-shot 17-pounder and mortar enplacements but does way LESS damage against Bofors. Can't believe that this is intended...

So I got to play some 1v1s today..It was the Sov vs Ost matchup. I used NKVD and Urban Defense, my friend went for German Infantry Doctrine.

NKVD: Radio Intercept + IL2 are still very good. The scorched earth ability is nice. I didn´t test the KV8 since it was 1v1 and it didn´t fit into the game. Commisar seemed decent in combat but needs more testing since I wasnt familiar with the abilities yet (other than force retreat).

Urban Defense: Shocks seem a bit better but I didn´t notice that much improvement in mid range fights. More testing needed though. Mini AT-gun seems more viable now even though the AI rounds didnt do much for me. I tried KV2 but it was 1v1 so it didn´t do anything and just got swarmed and died. Generally I don´t think the doctrine is any good for 1v1 but in 2v2+ I would be willing to give it a fair try.

German Infantry Doctrine: From playing against it for a few games I have to say I find it very underwhelming. New Stormtroops felt disappointing. 5 men Grenadiers don´t really seem worth it either. More bleed, less long range DPS. This doctrine needs some major buffs.

So I got to play some 1v1s today..It was the Sov vs Ost matchup. I used NKVD and Urban Defense, my friend went for German Infantry Doctrine.

German Infantry Doctrine: From playing against it for a few games I have to say I find it very underwhelming. New Stormtroops felt disappointing. 5 men Grenadiers don´t really seem worth it either. More bleed, less long range DPS. This doctrine needs some major buffs.

+1

Valentine had a major buff to its AI with x150% damage buff while keeping AOE the same.

In addition its armor is allot higher than the AEC, CP 4 for light/medium tank is way to early.

But its still disappointing it need some additional Buff

But its still disappointing it need some additional Buff

It need a redesign not buffs. The unit is simply extremely mobile.
The unit has too much armor and HP for light vehicle, but little damage, come too early, has too low armor and HP and it is way to mobile for medium tank.

In other words it suffers from an identity crises and id should be redesigned with specific role in mind.

Imo it should be slow and well armored acting more like mini Churchill, sine it was a infantry support tank in reality.

It would also benefit the unit if the barrage ability was an upgrade and limited to 1, since then the unit could be balance in 2 separate versions with and without the Sexton synergy.

It need a redesign not buffs. The unit is simply extremely mobile.
The unit has too much armor and HP for light vehicle, but little damage, come too early, has too low armor and HP and it is way to mobile for medium tank.

In other words it suffers from an identity crises and id should be redesigned with specific role in mind.

Imo it should be slow and well armored acting more like mini Churchill, sine it was a infantry support tank in reality.

Agreed but then what's the point of it being in the Artillery doctrine?

Agreed but then what's the point of it being in the Artillery doctrine?

The synergy with sexton?

The option to stay lower tech so one can call in Sexton earlier?

I would actually add it to tactical support instead of croc so tactical support had a decent command vehicle, instead of making croc one of the most common UKF abilities.

The synergy with sexton?

The option to stay lower tech so one can call in Sexton earlier?

I would actually add it to tactical support instead of croc so tactical support had a decent command vehicle, instead of making croc one of the most common UKF abilities.

Wait with the Valentine becoming a mini-Churchill is it going to keep it's Sexton Victor Target?

And yeah I also thought about a Sherman/M10 duo or separate vehicles being added to Tac Support instead of the Croc as well, maybe the Brits could use the M10 since the Firefly is a bit meh right now?

But it still doesn't answer the question what to replace it with in Royal Artillery, the USF M21 Mortar HT maybe.

What the reason for squad with SMG keeping M1 Garand only for smoke grenade? It's really awkward:


Can they get normal animation for smoke grenade, like commandos or shocktroops? i am sure americans have normal smoke grenade during WW2.

What the reason for squad with SMG keeping M1 Garand only for smoke grenade? It's really awkward:


Can they get normal animation for smoke grenade, like commandos or shocktroops? i am sure americans have normal smoke grenade during WW2.

Why?
Its called smoke rifle nade.
Its got much more range then hand thrown nades, because its being shot from a rifle.

Why?
Its called smoke rifle nade.
Its got much more range then hand thrown nades, because its being shot from a rifle.

You think sarcasm is a good way to deny my statement, don't you?
I am talking about cavarly riflemen, normal riflemen don't have smoke grenade for a long time.
It's not ok, when sqaud with only SMG (5 grease guns and upgrade with 2 thompsons) as weapon carring extra rifle just for smoke grenade.
If the range of grenade is a thing, than they need a new abillity, which fully repeat rifle smoke grenade, but with animation of normal grenade.

The grenade does not kill a cache, Demo charge does it also kills a bunker (if I remember correctly. The utility has not been taken away, one simply needs to wait for CD to pass, it has become a bit more tricky to pull off.


I am sorry to say but you analysis is based on flawed assumptions.

Facts:
Pg camouflage was improved in DBP and it allows them to move when cloaked
Pg get a first strike bonus that St.T do not
Pg get an elite grenade which has allot more shock value than the flame grenade
St44 has great DPS both close and mid so they can continue firing on infantry even after they hit the retreat button.
Pg can sprint

Pgs can actually set an ambush quite effectively.

The main thing St.T have is tactical movement which is great but comes with 3 drawbacks, it increases their own size to 1.5, slows them down and the effect linger even if they run in trouble and have to retreat. The ability is more effective when used against retreating infantry.

Commandos are simply way better at ambush combining 5 men, elite grenade, high moving DPS and a vet speed bonus.

Actually I have little to add on subject, imo commandos are already a great unit and do not need further buffs, they are out of scope and the argument the "grass is greener on the other side" is basically flawed.

Stormtroopers still have the better camouflage that lets them leave cover. This lets them move around completely undetected if you micro right and opens up way more options than the current pgren ambush camo. Stormtroopers don’t get a first strike bonus as you said, but they have tactical assault and great close range dps out to 10 meters. Tactical assault is a great ambush ability that gives a lot of potential to wipe squads with careful positioning that is far easier with their better camouflage, much like commandos are able to do. They also have good moving dps for firing on the move if they aren’t usin tactical assault for whatever reason. I want to make clear that I’m not saying they’re better than commandos, I actually think commandos are an all around better unit but they are a very close second and much better at infiltration (by infiltration I mean the tactic, not building spawning that goes by the same name here) and behind the lines combat than pgrens with ambush camo are. Now they both have distinct roles despite being superficially similar, and stormtroopers full that role very well. I am actually very much looking forward to playing a lot of ostheer with stormtroopers once this patch goes live.

What the reason for squad with SMG keeping M1 Garand only for smoke grenade? It's really awkward:


Can they get normal animation for smoke grenade, like commandos or shocktroops? i am sure americans have normal smoke grenade during WW2.

Do they actually carry and use a garland in combat or is it only when they launch rifle smoke? Because if it’s the latter it’s only a visual problem, and there are already similarly problematic details with rifle smoke, as officers will frequently shoot smoke out of m1 carbines or BARs just because they’re carrying them in the squad. Now I wonder if the major will shoot rifle smoke out of his 1911 if he’s the last one in the squad XD

Wait with the Valentine becoming a mini-Churchill is it going to keep it's Sexton Victor Target?

And yeah I also thought about a Sherman/M10 duo or separate vehicles being added to Tac Support instead of the Croc as well, maybe the Brits could use the M10 since the Firefly is a bit meh right now?

But it still doesn't answer the question what to replace it with in Royal Artillery, the USF M21 Mortar HT maybe.

The mortar HT was not used by British forces in WW II as far as I know.

One idea would be for the Valentine to lose barrage and spotting and to be have clear role either as light tank or medium tank or infantry support tank.

Once that is shuttle the unit in Royal artillery could have an upgrade available to upgrade to Forward observer Tank gaining abilities that allow it to synergies with sexton. The trade of would be to lose some of its damage similar to command vehicle. The upgrade should also be limited to 1.

The same Valentine could also become available to Tactical support without the FO upgrade and become a good candidate for a command vehicle.

M-10, Shermans or Sherman dozers could also work for Tactical support.

Stormtroopers still have the better camouflage that lets them leave cover...

Regardless which unit can do it better St.T or Camo Pg, they simply overlap in the ambush role.

Regardless which unit can do it better St.T or Camo Pg, they simply overlap in the ambush role.

Stormtroopers can be used much more actively and offensively since they have a far and away superior camouflage to ambush camo pgrens. It’s much easier to sneak behind enemy lines with stormtroopers or commandos than ambush camo pgrens because as soon as pgrens take a step out of camo they are revealed.

This opens up a wealth of possibilities for more aggressive and offensive ambushes and flanking through camo to get at support weapons or low health squads without he enemy even realizing.

Do they actually carry and use a garland in combat or is it only when they launch rifle smoke? Because if it’s the latter it’s only a visual problem, and there are already similarly problematic details with rifle smoke, as officers will frequently shoot smoke out of m1 carbines or BARs just because they’re carrying them in the squad. Now I wonder if the major will shoot rifle smoke out of his 1911 if he’s the last one in the squad XD

Only for smoke grenade. I won‘t say anything, if cavalrly riflemen have Garand as a weapon. Cap and Leut have Garands in the their squads, so nothing strange. What about major...well... it can be solved in two ways:
1. Change Carbines on Garands. With same stats if you worry this change makes him OP
2. Remove this abillity for major