SOVIET COMMANDER REVAMP DISCUSSION

Lend lease tactics
0cp m4c sherman
2cp conscript ptrs package
6cp B-4 203mm howtizer
8cp IL-2 Strafe Run
12cp ISU-152 assault gun

That would destroy the character of this doctrine IMO. It's called Lend-Lease, and the only Lend Lease unit in here is the M4C sherman.

In the current Lend Lease doctrine, everything apart from the Dshk has "Lend Lease Character"

That would destroy the character of this doctrine IMO. It's called Lend-Lease, and the only Lend Lease unit in here is the M4C sherman.

In the current Lend Lease doctrine, everything apart from the Dshk has "Lend Lease Character"

Okay I'll find more balanced into this matter

0cp m4c sherman
2cp shocktroops with tommys
2cp Dshk call in the battlefield
5cp Cargo air supply fuel crates
8cp IL-2 Strafe Run

How are PTRS and Arty barrage are related to Lend Lease in any way?

Stuff like P47 Strafe, Thompsons/Piats for Assault Guards, M2HB/57mm gun Airdrop make far more sense then random abilities for doctrine that supposed to be about allied support for SU

give nvkd an ability to drop off munis and fuel

Okay I'll find more balanced into this matter

0cp m4c sherman
2cp shocktroops with tommys
2cp Dshk call in the battlefield
5cp Cargo air supply fuel crates
8cp IL-2 Strafe Run

lol shock troops with tommies, I like it. Would be hilarious if it was possible to implement this.

My idea of Urban defence tactics.

0CP FORWARD HEADQUARTERS
2CP penal battalions can upgrade with 2 DP-28 LMGs, costs 60 munitions.

2CP M-42 45MM AT GUN
move to 1CP and it starts with ambush tactics, like raketenwerfer.

6CP BOOBY TRAP TERRITORY
reduce cost to 50 munitions, replace damage with incendiary.

4CP ARMORED VEHICLE DETECTION
6CP FOR MOTHER RUSSIAN

7CP INCENDIARY ARTILLERY BARRAGE
it's good enough.

lol shock troops with tommies, I like it. Would be hilarious if it was possible to implement this.

Hmm I'm going to think of something new for this tactics

Lend lease
0cp m4c sherman
3cp conscripts Bar package(2 max)
3cp combat engineers m9 bazooka package(2 max)
8cp 17lber Emplacement combat engineers can now build
12cp Strafing Support ("Two Hawker Typhoons target the designated area with rockets and machine guns.")

Soviet Shock Army (revamp):

For Mother Russia 6cp

Shock Trooper 2CP

Conscript Assault Package 3CP

B4 203mm Howitzer 8CP

KV2 Heavy Assault Tank 14CP

Focuses on extremely aggressive play early to mid game with lots of automatics crashing into to the enemy frontline and switches gears at late game into a siege commander (the B4 and kv 2 and for mother Russia) are almost never used because locked behind singular commander)

Urban Defense (revamp):

Forward Headquarters 0CP

KV8 Flamethrower Tank 0CP

Conscript PTRS Package 2CP

DShK Heavy Machine Gun 2CP

Booby Trap Territory 6CP

The idea behind this retool is that you are going to make the enemy pay dearly for each building and meter they take. To be able to make each ambient building in to a fortress for infantry and vehicles. Also a KV1 to get them out again for if they managed to take the building by building stairs out of their dead Comrades.

It will make it less unique. Urban Defence become copy of shocks/IS-2 and shocks/ISU-152 doctrines, but without IS-2/ISU-152.



Defensive doctrine will become ultimate mp drain. 3 call-ins with 300+ mp cost (and 200 mp M42) is to much. And there is better analogs (for elite infantry and DShK - Lend-Lease, for elite infantry and HM-38 - Guard Motor Coordination or Soviet Shock Army). The problem with this doctrine imo - it hasn't late game tools.

I really like this idea!

The Soviets are pure Docs. In all the matches, most people choose Docs with elite units, so the best stuff is:

Urban Defense Tactics:
-FHQ in 4v4 there is a lot of abuse, so it is best to replace it with an elite unit, if possible Shook Troops (partisans is not the same).
-BoobyTrapTerritory, this trap occupy a commander slot, which makes the commander waste, so it is better to replace it by Conscript Repair.
-Fix: M-42 ATgun copy/paste as Rakete OKW,

Defensive Tactics:
-PMD-6 ATpersonnel, this trap occupy a commander slot, which makes the commander waste, so it is better to replace it by an elite unit, if possible Shook Troops (partisans is not the same).
-Fix: M-42 ATgun copy/paste as Rakete OKW.

YES!!!

Guards with IS2 sounds great!

Contrary to popular belief, a multitude of abilities (and therefore combinations) do not result in more dynamic commander play. Years of metagame have shown us this. If we focus on streamlining a number of abilities, a level of consistency can be brought to the Soviet commander pool that has never been previously enjoyed.

I am encouraged that Relic is exploring merging Defensive Fortifications (Tank Traps) into Entrenching Tools (Barbed-Wire, Sandbags, Trenches), especially after integrating Hit the Dirt into into Guards and conscript PPSh. This is exactly the sort of changes that the EFA commanders need to become more competitive, dynamic, and balanced. I offer my thoughts and ideas on addressing the Soviet faction's commander pool and the metagame.

There are a number of soviet doctrinal abilities that could (or should) be merged together to provide a more consistent set of doctrinal abilities without robbing commanders of their flavor.

Merge the following doctrinal abilities:

Conscript Repair Package
PMD AI mines (And allow conscripts to lay them)
PMD AT mines

Form these into a new "Conscript Engineer Package" at 3-5CP. (Distinctly lacking flamethrowers/sweepers, the two roles actual combat engineers upgrade into. Only reason I suggest 5CPs is that is the current requirement for conscript repair. I think 3 is appropriate.) All instances of these doctrinal abilities are exclusive to each other, so each instance could be replaced with this merged passive without requiring new replacement abilities.
Advanced Warfare, Conscript Support, Shock Motor, and Soviet Reserve all see the addition of laying AI or AT PMD mines. Defensive Tactics and Tank Hunters each gain conscript repair and better mine laying capabilities. None of these are major meta commanders, especially Defensive Tactics.

Another set of abilities that should be merged are Armored Vehicle Detection and Anti-Tank Ambush Tactics. Although ATG ambush is 2 CP and armored vehicle detection is 4 CPs, a merged "Anti-Tank Tactics" ability would be still be appropriate anywhere at 2-4 CPs. (I don't know if anyone gets much use out of a cloaked ZIS at 2 CP.) Though the proposed M42 cloak would overlap with this combination, it wouldn't need to be affected if it had the superior cloaking ability anyway.

Armored Vehicle Detection is in Urban Defense and Shock Motor. Anti-Tank Ambush Tactics is in Mechanized Support, Shock Rifle, and Soviet Combined. (Tank Hunters has its own special variety that affects vehicles, but Armored Vehicle Detection should totally be combined or added into Tank Hunters.) The merged ability would give soviet players better ability (sight) to actually lay an ambush, and would only provide more utility to some underused commanders. It doesn't create the need for any replacement abilities either.

Finally, and most simply: Merge (replace) the KV-1 with the KV-8. This improves the Counterattack, Conscript Support, and Guard Rifle commander.

These proposed combinations would improve nearly a dozen off-meta (and one on-meta) commanders. I don't think there's any more or less overlap after these combinations.

The tally of commanders buffed:
Advanced Warfare +
Conscript Support ++
Shock Motor ++
Soviet Reserve +
Defensive Tactics +
Tank Hunters +
Urban Defense +
Mechanized Support +
Shock Rifle +
Soviet Combined Arms +
Counterattack +
(Guard Rifle +)

More ambitious point about KVs
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How to overhaul Partisan Tactics:

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Ideas for incorporating doctrinal abilities into the core faction:

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Necessary new doctrinal abilities:

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Contrary to popular belief, a multitude of abilities (and therefore combinations) do not result in more dynamic commander play. Years of metagame have shown us this. If we focus on streamlining a number of abilities, a level of consistency can be brought to the Soviet commander pool that has never been previously enjoyed.

I am encouraged that Relic is exploring merging Defensive Fortifications (Tank Traps) into Entrenching Tools (Barbed-Wire, Sandbags, Trenches), especially after integrating Hit the Dirt into into Guards and conscript PPSh. This is exactly the sort of changes that the EFA commanders need to become more competitive, dynamic, and balanced. I offer my thoughts and ideas on addressing the Soviet faction's commander pool and the metagame.
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Imo the changes in "hit the dirt" (and camo/sprint) where actually bad. First of all Guard's version gives offensive bonuses and Conscript's one defensive ones which is confusing.

Guard's version increases DPS/range making one of the most powerful vet 1 ability in an already powerful infantry. In addition it increase the range of PTRS to 42.5 which more than the main gun of tanks.

The Conscripts version is "defensive" ability that can be combined with the "offensive" ppsh allowing Conscripts to ourah to point blank range and then "hit the ground". The ability provides the same defensive bonuses of Command PzIV while the penalty in accuracy is not really that bad in close range when one used sgms.

From a design point of view one has to either bring all commander abilities to the same powerlevel (pretty hard to achieve) or allow abilities with different power level but make be more careful when combining them so that total power level of the abilities thru out the commander remain about the same. So imo "weaker" abilities should exist to compliment commanders with "stronger" abilities.

For instance instead of nerfing stuka dive bomb one should simply remove the Elephant stuka/combo.

On the other hand extra weak abilities like tank traps should be merged for both faction.

From a design point of view one has to either bring all commander abilities to the same powerlevel (pretty hard to achieve) or allow abilities with different power level but make be more careful when combining them so that total power level of the abilities thru out the commander remain about the same. So imo "weaker" abilities should exist to compliment commanders with "stronger" abilities.

For instance instead of nerfing stuka dive bomb one should simply remove the Elephant stuka/combo.

On the other hand extra weak abilities like tank traps should be merged for both faction.

I'm totally on your side with this one.

I wish that Relic or balance team relize that revamp of unused commanders isn't enough. You revamp two commanders but another 5 will still be unseen just becouse there is 2-3 meta commanders that are simply way better than any other.

Why would you pick a tank hunters commander if you can have a commander with KV-1 tank, strafe, guards, cons ppsh upgrade AND ml20 or another example: ISU, guards, mark target and bombing strafe. Nerfing most common, powerfull commnaders would unlock the one rarely seen.

Imo the changes in "hit the dirt" (and camo/sprint) where actually bad. First of all Guard's version gives offensive bonuses and Conscript's one defensive ones which is confusing.

There is no dispute here with me. While I agree that the specific changes aren't intuitive, or even that great, the fact that two doctrinal abilities were merged together is certainly a positive direction to be headed.