re-evaluting the panther's range and HP

Agreed. Since they nerfed the StuG the Wehr needs a good TD and for some reason the Soviets have 2, the SU-76 and SU-85, altho the 76 is a dual purpose unit, I don't see the problem in having the Panther be dual purpose as well then.

Being a TD and Heavy when needed, the switchable rounds would enforce that however the "omg tis too similar to another faction!!1!!!" crowd will speak up.

===========
- If you insist Germany be more like Soviets, then perhaps allies be more like Germany too?

- T34/85 becomes non doctrinal and has upgraded Panther stats (960 hp, armor, range, dmg, blitzkrieg)
- SU76 replaced with Puma.
- PS: StuIIIG eats Pershing 1vs1 easily.
- You just argued that Germany should be more like Soviets. Why stop there, isn't it more balanced
to just make everything the same? 5x men squads (even soviets, down from 6). USF, OKW have MG in T0
Wehr, soviets, OKW, brits have Mortar in T0 (like USA), everyone get ambulance, everyone's tank crew
can disembark. / USF can no longer 350 pop their tank fleet, but their tanks now have OKW tank stats.
Buff King Tiger a lot.
Give everyone King Tiger.

If you go with "Game would be funner if X unit of my pet faction was buffed" everyone can say that.
It never, never ends.

Only solution? Mirror stats. Then no one can bitch.

You're a comp stomper who fails to succeed with Tiger.

I don't need to label you as anything.

IF he's a comp stomper, all he needs to do is play Spearhead mod.
Tiger 1-shots everything from long range in that mod. Plus, Germany has larger inf squads.

Being a comp stomper means he can just do that without caring about balance for the
community at large (Ranked matches)/Automatch.

There's even cheat mods so that you can start with 4-5x tigers at start.
Problem fixed.

Everyone wins!
=========
during the pre-release beta of the vanilla coh2, panther had a range of 60m
during the pre-release beta of the vanilla COH2, T34 had a potent RAM mechanic that would
cripple German tank main guns on impact regardless of that tank's armor. Perhaps that should
be brought back? Mind you, T34s were 8 pop and cost like 60 fuel each and came in-game at T3.

I agree, everything should be brought back to pre-release alpha levels!

Id say the panther should be altered more into a brawler/diver but since it has such low moving accuracy it cant do that role.

Have moving accuracy increases to e8 levels would be nice along with a better ROF as it suffers from being out DPSed due to how low its ROF is, in turn its range would be decreased to 45

=================
Real life Panther has insane armor in front, and quasi no armor on sides/rear.
Real life Panther is an up-armored sniper. It is in an odd place, I agree. But it is
not a brawler. Then you'd be better off with a Churchill which has good all-around armor.

- Moving accuracy were nerfed from British. As British and Wehr are quasi the same,
German accuracy was lowered on the move to match (but it's okay because British got nerfed too, see?)

Note : Devs experimented with giving bigger DPS per shot to heavies (IS-2, Tiger, Panther, etc)
but this was nixxed by Relic. I myself think it's insane that Panther, Heavies do same damage per
shot as Mediums do (but mediums have higher ROF) = Mediums do more dmg than heavies ?!!?

IF buff the panther buff Perhing HP and E8s E8s to 800 HP perhing to 960 and keep the price the same

the panther's gun have an accuracy of .03-.06, which is actually already higher than the "average" of .025-.05 for most tank gun.

Tank destroyer have .04-.06 but that's a different story.



having a high moving accuracy modifier is not a requirement for being a brawler tank.

The US sherman are the only units to have the .75 modifier, everyone else have .50 modifier.
The british comet and cromwell used to have .75 modifier but eventually nerfed down to .50. (FF does have .55 but this is splitting hair.)


The obsession at destroying enemy tank is also part of the problem. The high accuracy on tank destroyer make it harder to disengage. AtG have .04-.06 because they are mobile.

snip

Huh I was wrong, maybe a ROF buff then? Feels like the panther generally gets out DPSed since its reload takes forever

Also if people decide to take the generalist approach I'd say buffs to its MGs would be okay.

===========
- If you insist Germany be more like Soviets, then perhaps allies be more like Germany too?

- PS: StuIIIG eats Pershing 1vs1 easily.

- You just argued that Germany should be more like Soviets. Why stop there, isn't it more balanced
to just make everything the same? 5x men squads (even soviets, down from 6). USF, OKW have MG in T0
Wehr, soviets, OKW, brits have Mortar in T0 (like USA), everyone get ambulance, everyone's tank crew
can disembark. / USF can no longer 350 pop their tank fleet, but their tanks now have OKW tank stats.
Buff King Tiger a lot.
Give everyone King Tiger.

If you go with "Game would be funner if X unit of my pet faction was buffed" everyone can say that.
It never, never ends.

Only solution? Mirror stats. Then no one can bitch.

Stug easily 1v1 a Persh?! Lay off the crack pipe. With double stug you have a reasonable chance of killing a pershing if it's ENTIRELY without support.

And you forget to mention that USF gets a shitload of free stuff that no other faction gets..... Your "mirror stats" argument is getting ridiculously old. I see that Katitof taught you well in the art of cancer spreading.

IF buff the panther buff Perhing HP and E8s E8s to 800 HP perhing to 960 and keep the price the same

I'm not gonna say anything about changing the panther but if you think the pershing deserves a buff if a panther gets a potential buff, you need to check your entitlement when playing as USF. The USF was never supposed to get a heavy tank and yet it did. The Jackson right now is straight OP and USF players will be more than fine to not get Persh in the late game. USF never lacked anti-infantry and now it has an OP tank destroyer. I'd say if the Persh needs a change, it should get a nerf if anything.

I'm not gonna say anything about changing the panther but if you think the pershing deserves a buff if a panther gets a potential buff, you need to check your entitlement when playing as USF. The USF was never supposed to get a heavy tank and yet it did. The Jackson right now is straight OP and USF players will be more than fine to not get Persh in the late game. USF never lacked anti-infantry and now it has an OP tank destroyer. I'd say if the Persh needs a change, it should get a nerf if anything.

Perhing is only useful not as a tank but as a tech skip the tank is useless only good at wipping nothing else 2v2 3v3 4v4 its really bad IMO a lot of are using E8s cuz they can take the same hits(exept from shecks) as a panther vet0 and pershing aka heavy tank and you said USF doesnt lack anti infantry and yees you are HALF right at mid and alte enemy just gets Obers soldat at every freaking game with lmgs and rekt eveyrthing at vet 0 along with volks officer blob my god making riflemen fall back and jackson got cost incrased and trust me elephant and jags can still counter and even if you dont take that commander you got fast rate of fire p4 along with panther as OKW and for OST too but with Stugs which their ROF is insanly fast cuz it has no turret which is good

Idk if this is an April Fools joke but regardless, the Panther is mostly fine. Sure there could be some tweaks but the game is going to be half of a decade old in three months so it's probably best not to worry much about it.

IF buff the panther buff Perhing HP and E8s E8s to 800 HP perhing to 960 and keep the price the same

that's what they did for the jackson too right ... oh wait

Perhing is only useful not as a tank but as a tech skip the tank is useless only good at wipping nothing else 2v2 3v3 4v4 its really bad IMO a lot of are using E8s cuz they can take the same hits(exept from shecks) as a panther vet0 and pershing aka heavy tank and you said USF doesnt lack anti infantry and yees you are HALF right at mid and alte enemy just gets Obers soldat at every freaking game with lmgs and rekt eveyrthing at vet 0 along with volks officer blob my god making riflemen fall back and jackson got cost incrased and trust me elephant and jags can still counter and even if you dont take that commander you got fast rate of fire p4 along with panther as OKW and for OST too but with Stugs which their ROF is insanly fast cuz it has no turret which is good

"THe persh is only good at wiping squads." That says all you need to know why the pershing is very good. Wiping squads means the opponent loses veteran squads. The pershing wipes squads without requiring much micro at all. Would you like to see a nerf to persh like what the KT received? I don't think so.

"THe persh is only good at wiping squads." That says all you need to know why the pershing is very good. Wiping squads means the opponent loses veteran squads. The pershing wipes squads without requiring much micro at all. Would you like to see a nerf to persh like what the KT received? I don't think so.

Ehh theres more to being a good tank than wiping squads (look at the oooold IS-2 that could lose in a sluging match with a p4 but would erase any infantry it looked at) however the pershing really is the whole package. Its got tiger armour, fantastic support, is fast, great vet and is included with one of the STRONGEST abilities in the game- combined arms.
Increased LOS(35%) ROF (-30%) and range (+5) for the tanks and -20% reload, +30% accuracy and +35% LOS for infantry

A vet 3 conbined arms pershing can fire shells guaranteed to pen uparmoured p4s every ~2 seconds giving it the ability to kill one quicker than a pak43 (whom can 2 shot mediums) it doesnt have the health of other heavies but is far and above them in killing power

That does not mean much.
Panther vs stug, 2 stug are more cost efficient than a Panther.

No matter how you balance the Panther if T4 is simply not worth it, little will change.

In the current balance situation I would rather have a Panther with 230 frontal armor that cost 140 fuel.

you do realize the purpose of this thread is to make the panther more attractive? to say that panther is not good enough so it's not worth buffing is entirely self-defeating.

The Tiger is already invalidated because it's an overpriced piece of shit and has been for a long time now.

if the tiger is truly already invalidated then invaldidating is not helping matter.

Huh I was wrong, maybe a ROF buff then? Feels like the panther generally gets out DPSed since its reload takes forever

Also if people decide to take the generalist approach I'd say buffs to its MGs would be okay.

the okw panther still have pretty slow reload, but the wehr panther reload is "reasonable".

wehr panther = 6.4

pershing = 6.5
E8 = 6.3

t34-85 & comet = 6.15

it's not that worst off.

=================
Real life Panther has insane armor in front, and quasi no armor on sides/rear.
Real life Panther is an up-armored sniper. It is in an odd place, I agree. But it is
not a brawler. Then you'd be better off with a Churchill which has good all-around armor.

the true "sniper" were the marders tank destroyer that were essentially large gun slap onto old hulls.

The panther was a good long range fighter due to the high accuracy and high penetration of its gun, but that's different from a td like marder whose only mean of survival was to remain hidden.

I'm not gonna say anything about changing the panther but if you think the pershing deserves a buff if a panther gets a potential buff, you need to check your entitlement when playing as USF. The USF was never supposed to get a heavy tank and yet it did. The Jackson right now is straight OP and USF players will be more than fine to not get Persh in the late game. USF never lacked anti-infantry and now it has an OP tank destroyer. I'd say if the Persh needs a change, it should get a nerf if anything.

the purpose of doctrine is to essentially mix up their pre-existing unit rooster. To bring variety to a faction.

Perhing is only useful not as a tank but as a tech skip the tank is useless only good at wipping nothing else 2v2 3v3 4v4 its really bad IMO a lot of are using E8s cuz they can take the same hits(exept from shecks) as a panther vet0 and pershing aka heavy tank and you said USF doesnt lack anti infantry and yees you are HALF right at mid and alte enemy just gets Obers soldat at every freaking game with lmgs and rekt eveyrthing at vet 0 along with volks officer blob my god making riflemen fall back and jackson got cost incrased and trust me elephant and jags can still counter and even if you dont take that commander you got fast rate of fire p4 along with panther as OKW and for OST too but with Stugs which their ROF is insanly fast cuz it has no turret which is good

I do think the pershing would better serve the USF if it lose its AOE in exchange for better armor and hp. The godlike AOE is really overkill and unnecessary in the same faction carrying the sherman.


the main draw of the pershing tank in game and in real life was having something that could go toe to toe against german tank. The sherman tank didn't had any problem killing infantry.

There was a suggestion to make the panther 640hp. In return, it gets 200 dmg and its vet 2 bonuses restored. Then the blitz would be improved so that you also get better RoF/75% moving acc while the ability is active. This will make it a bit more glass cannon, but it will give better dps that is sorely lacking from the panther.

that's what they did for the jackson too right ... oh wait

yeah

"THe persh is only good at wiping squads." That says all you need to know why the pershing is very good. Wiping squads means the opponent loses veteran squads. The pershing wipes squads without requiring much micro at all. Would you like to see a nerf to persh like what the KT received? I don't think so.

if there was no perhing rifle company would STILL be alive they would delete veteran rifles gain but i think E8 would be a call in cuz USF would have no heavy tank and E8 would have come at 9 CP i remember with spamable allowing

...
you do realize the purpose of this thread is to make the panther more attractive? to say that panther is not good enough so it's not worth buffing is entirely self-defeating.

Maybe I was not clear enough. If the researching and building T4 is no worth it even if one balances the Panther it will have very little impact in anything bellow 3vs3.

If Panther has a higher tech cost and cost more than allied TDs that can defeat from max range, people will still use the Tiger.

The problem of Ostheer Panther are interlinked with problems of T4.

===========
- If you insist Germany be more like Soviets, then perhaps allies be more like Germany too?

- T34/85 becomes non doctrinal and has upgraded Panther stats (960 hp, armor, range, dmg, blitzkrieg)
- SU76 replaced with Puma.
- PS: StuIIIG eats Pershing 1vs1 easily.
- You just argued that Germany should be more like Soviets. Why stop there, isn't it more balanced
to just make everything the same? 5x men squads (even soviets, down from 6). USF, OKW have MG in T0
Wehr, soviets, OKW, brits have Mortar in T0 (like USA), everyone get ambulance, everyone's tank crew
can disembark. / USF can no longer 350 pop their tank fleet, but their tanks now have OKW tank stats.
Buff King Tiger a lot.
Give everyone King Tiger.

If you go with "Game would be funner if X unit of my pet faction was buffed" everyone can say that.
It never, never ends.

Only solution? Mirror stats. Then no one can bitch.

Go back to your maple cyrup because you're taking my words out of context.

You're a comp stomper who fails to succeed with Tiger.

I don't need to label you as anything.

Go ahead and prove me wrong then you Polish troll.

yeah

yea they buffed the panther,stug and jp4 hp when they buffed jackson hp right ?

Idk if this is an April Fools joke but regardless, the Panther is mostly fine.

Its mostly fine in comparasent to what? Its fine it you are floating with fuel, but if you have head to head game, for ostheer PIV or Stug is by far supperior option and for OKW JP is again by far much supperior option. Hell even if some1 goes for ostheer T4 its usually only to get PWerfer or Brumbar

Maybe this unit isnt UP like pre-buffed T34\76 was, but in correct meta and overall gamebalance, panther is the least cost effective and overall effective tank unit in the game.