Soviet sniper

What we can do about this low risk, high reward unit?

What we can do about this low risk, high reward unit?

I don't want to say that the Soviet Sniper is fine, but it is everything but low risk.

Losing one model means 90MP down the drain. Losing both means 360MP gone. Also the most important thing to consider is getting a Sniper means a Penal Squad less and way less capping power. And if the Soviet player gets the sniper later on, it might face 222s and other light vehicles.

So yeah, it is annoying as hell but still high risk, high reward.

By buffing it's counters, right now infantry does nothing to the sniper and the 222 get's countered before it hits the field (I won't even discuss the kubel).

It's very much a low risk unit seeing as no other sniper has so much ehp and is immune to countersnipes.

I don't want to say that the Soviet Sniper is fine, but it is everything but low risk.

Losing one model means 90MP down the drain. Losing both means 360MP gone. Also the most important thing to consider is getting a Sniper means a Penal Squad less and way less capping power. And if the Soviet player gets the sniper later on, it might face 222s and other light vehicles.

So yeah, it is annoying as hell but still high risk, high reward.

I don't think most sniper builds go penals anymore, both together cost way to much to have any map control. Therefore a cons+sniper meta is more common, but what you said still applies to cons also.

I don't want to say that the Soviet Sniper is fine, but it is everything but low risk.

Losing one model means 90MP down the drain. Losing both means 360MP gone. Also the most important thing to consider is getting a Sniper means a Penal Squad less and way less capping power. And if the Soviet player gets the sniper later on, it might face 222s and other light vehicles.

So yeah, it is annoying as hell but still high risk, high reward.

helping hans says no
OmegaLul

helping hans says no
OmegaLul

As good as HelpingHans is, remember that he parks tanks on his own tellers all the damn time.

To be fair, the sniper has received some nerfs directly or indirectly in the past.

- they used to be harder to hit in general
- less units had accuracy bonuses against them
- going back to stealth was much faster and easier
- they had faster aimtime the closer a target was
- you even could stack bulletins on them

Even then, if people want the soviet sniper nerfed, please don't butcher them into oblivion.

By buffing it's counters, right now infantry does nothing to the sniper and the 222 get's countered before it hits the field (I won't even discuss the kubel).

It's very much a low risk unit seeing as no other sniper has so much ehp and is immune to countersnipes.

It is immune to single countersnipe but it is the only sniper that dies to a single mortar round. I would say it is just as hard to kill as ostheer sniper.

bring 221 (iirc) back and give it 222 upgrade again, problem solved LUL

It is immune to single countersnipe but it is the only sniper that dies to a single mortar round. I would say it is just as hard to kill as ostheer sniper.

Because everyone knows that mortars are the natural no brainer counter to snipers... And they actually dont die to one mortar shell because they have two models, unless you are super unlucky and both models feel lonely and decide to hug each other for comfort.

It is immune to single countersnipe but it is the only sniper that dies to a single mortar round. I would say it is just as hard to kill as ostheer sniper.

Yeah that's a pretty dumb thing to say. You mean a soviet sniper COULD die to a single mortar shell if the models are clumped and it hits the exact spot... rarely. On the other hand, the Ostheer sniper WILL die if it is countersniped.

There was another thread just a few days ago...
link

The summary (IMO) was basically that there's no way to re-balance the Sov sniper properly as a 2-model squad without ruining the brit sniper at the same time. Anything done to buff Ost/OKW power vs. the Sov Sniper means an increase in power vs. the brit sniper as well, which is currently in a good spot balance wise.

This means the changes need to be on the Sov sniper side of the equation, and the main issue right now is its survivability being incredibly inconsistent. On one hand, it can survive a sniper shot at full HP, since it has two models, but on the other, it can be insta-wiped by an RNG mortar.

You could argue the 222 should be the 'real' counter, but since penals come out of T1 rifle com (and can use PTRS/sticky satchel), they 222 is pretty much hard-countered before it even shows up. As a result, the mortar becomes the best option vs. sov snipers, since it has very good MP-draining powers while being very low-risk, but it ends up being really frustrating for everyone involved due to the reliance on RNG (OST needs luck to hit, Sov needs luck to dodge).

OKW doesn't really have this problem as the Luchs can counter the sniper quite well (better survivability vs. penals w/ PTRS), and the Kubel can apply pressure if the sniper shows up far too early (before a proper penal blob can cover it), but having two models does result in further RNG-based survivals (chasing it all the way to base, for example). Yes, there's an awkward 3-4 min period where the sniper could be out with no hard counter, but it's not too bad IMO.


My conclusion here (and in the last thread) is to make the Sov sniper 1 model like every other sniper, and increase its HP to 82. Other adjustments might need to be made, since it's a fairly large survivability nerf, but they can't be in relation to DPS (since it would ruin Ost even more so) or survivability (we're solving that here), and shouldn't be for LOS (since there's already a flare ability). That really doesn't leave a lot of room for 'buffs' to make up for going from 2 to 1 model.

Countersniping an ost sniper at least requires an ambush as the soviet sniper lacks cover hopping camo. But anyways soviet t1 is by design a hard counter to the ost sniper, ost sniper shines against the less mobile soviet t2.

The biggest problem with the soviet sniper is that it costs the same as the wher sniper when it shouldnt due to its forgiveness. Bump it up to 400mp/100 reinforce.
It slows down critical mass, makes combining with penals VERY expensive and butchers field control trying in favor of bloody bleeding power.

It used to be fine before they nerfed incendiary. I do not know why most factions have an Achilles heel like this.

Ostheer bad vs soviet sniper
Okw bad vs maxims or early scout cars
Usf are bad vs mgs in buildings covered by mortars and terrible on lane maps before 2 cps
Ukf gets wrecked by mortars
Soviet has no weakness

By buffing it's counters, right now infantry does nothing to the sniper and the 222 get's countered before it hits the field (I won't even discuss the kubel).

It's very much a low risk unit seeing as no other sniper has so much ehp and is immune to countersnipes.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

just make it 1 man ffs

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

just make it 1 man ffs

One (hah) does not exclude the other.

Probibly the best solution for OST is to reduce scout car cost by 5-10 fuel and or actually give it enough armour to stop small arms.

Trying to get them with scout cars is just wasting resources. Unless your opponent is dumb as hell, there will be guards or at least cons in the way, and that's just a dead scout car.
And it's not like you will get them even if they are alone, while they retreating, a chasing scout car does absolutely nothing. If you manage to chase them to base, you might kill of one model until they start running around HQ and your car gets inevitably destroyed.
Grens can't hit them at max range you might catch them at either. With mg42 there's no chance for it to even shoot cause you need to keep moving, with g43 they can't hit them at all, had several games where the snipers were just normally backing off at max range of 2 squads of grens for several seconds and did not lose health at all.
Beyond a lucky mortar hit there's really nothing you can do against a smart player's soviet snipers unless you want to lose more than they're worth in the process.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

just make it 1 man ffs

I also never understood why Relic held so tightly to that cheesy decision to have Soviet sniper teams.
I'm pretty sure that someone 2012 just came up with the idea 'Hey guys, let's give Sovs a sniper. BUT TWO!'

I also never understood why Relic held so tightly to that cheesy decision to have Soviet sniper teams.
I'm pretty sure that someone 2012 just came up with the idea 'Hey guys, let's give Sovs a sniper. BUT TWO!'

The soviet mod of COH also used a sniper team. In real life sniper also work as team.