Su-76

That's a good copypasta albeit too long.

Penetration of SU-76 is actually higher than stug at same ranges:
Su-76 (0/30/60) 200/190/180
Stug (0/25/50) 200/185/170

su 76 HP 400 dmg 120 armor(front) 70
stug HP 560 dmg 160 armor(front) 140

let's remove the barrier and make the characteristics equal. Then it will be super?

2 x PG squads with Shreks or 2 x Sturm squads with shreks, will fix any issues you have with SU76, especially if you know how to flank, if not learn.

su 76 HP 400 dmg 120 armor(front) 70
stug HP 560 dmg 160 armor(front) 140

let's remove the barrier and make the characteristics equal. Then it will be super?

I was responding to a claim that the Stug had higher penetration than Su-76, where the armor and damage have no relevance. Su-76 simply has better penetration than the Stug (actually even better than the JP.)

I am not sure what your point is, that the Stug is OP? that the SU-76 is UP?

I have explained how imo these 2 units compared in cost efficiency in post you quoted me from, and I have suggested changes.

su 76 HP 400 dmg 120 armor(front) 70
stug HP 560 dmg 160 armor(front) 140

let's remove the barrier and make the characteristics equal. Then it will be super?

i think he is just respoding to "but su 76 has less pen then stug" people

As always, whenever it's a soviet the axis defense force rally itself and the whining overflows.

How about you learn to play and let Soviets have at least one good unit?

Why would stug be superior to SU76?
What about the arty ability that triggers you?

There has to be some reason to get SU76 instead of teching up and getting these overpriced SU85 or a T34 with a drunk shooter.

Why would stug be superior to SU76?

It is superior and it's correspondingly more expensive.

What about the arty ability that triggers you?

The OP answered this in the very first post: their concern was that swarmed SU-76s were countering AT guns by mass barraging them. It sounds like they were trying to fight SU-76 spam by charging them from the front with StuGs and PaKs.

As always, whenever it's a soviet the axis defense force rally itself and the whining overflows.

How about you learn to play and let Soviets have at least one good unit?

Why would stug be superior to SU76?
What about the arty ability that triggers you?

There has to be some reason to get SU76 instead of teching up and getting these overpriced SU85 or a T34 with a drunk shooter.

The su-76 is getting on my nerves, I don't think any explanation is needed, it's obvious how it is currently outperforming.

The su-76 is getting on my nerves, I don't think any explanation is needed, it's obvious how it is currently outperforming.

I sure do hope this becomes a meme from now on.

snip

These shitposts are getting on my nerves, I don't think any explanation is needed, it's obvious how it is currently outperforming.




On a more serious note: just resurrect this thread in a couple of months when we had a new SCOPE poll available.

Tbh i dont think the pen difference makes all the *er* difference. 10 pen at max vs a 20 pen difference in armour values for target mediums. Both are guaranteed to pen eachother and all mediums EXCEPT p4s with skirts (not something the pen handicapped stug deals with) or panther/comet/churchill/brumbar/jp4. and obviously the KT for non doc combatants.

It makes sense for the su76 to have slightly higher pen than the stug given its own stats as well as the units it targets.

But truthfully i would mind seeing the su76s rear armour fall some, its unique in its open back and i think being vulnerable to infantry in the rear (maybe for decrew lile the sturmtiger? Could be interesting. Target tables could allow mg strafes to deal damage as well even. The unit itself is fine, however being spammed is not.

Hell even increase its cost to like 100 fuel unless t4 is built, then it CAN be a hold out, but if you need to build t4 ANYWAYS to make it cost effecient maybe it will incentivize diversifying

...
On a more serious note: just resurrect this thread in a couple of months when we had a new SCOPE poll available.

The idea of doing patches with scope simply does not work.

It can only work is someone uses a benchmark and compares everything with the benchmark.

Currently patches to fix the balance between 2 units while breaking them for the rest of them and that has left Ostheer (what used to be the benchmark) to have to relay on call in units.

There are simple things like the XP value of the SU-76 that should be fixed with or without scope.

The idea of doing patches with scope simply does not work.

It can only work is someone uses a benchmark and compares everything with the benchmark.

Currently patches to fix the balance between 2 units while breaking them for the rest of them and that has left Ostheer (what used to be the benchmark) to have to relay on call in units.

There are simple things like the XP value of the SU-76 that should be fixed with or without scope.

Depends on how broad the scope is. Something like say: "adjusting vet gain an abilities" i think would be a perfectly reasonable scope. There is so much going on in this game that refining and giving a bit of focus is a good idea, however too tight a scope is possible.

Depends on how broad the scope is. Something like say: "adjusting vet gain an abilities" i think would be a perfectly reasonable scope. There is so much going on in this game that refining and giving a bit of focus is a good idea, however too tight a scope is possible.

Only if balancing is made with direct comparison with the benchmark (that use to be Ostheer) while keeping in mind the relative faction design.

Either wise you get monstrosities like:
USF mortar when first patched (modeled after Ostheer one while it is desing to be OP.)

Penal when first patched (modeled after riflemen when riflemen are designed to be OP.)

AT conscripts designed to be attractive compared to PTRS Penals becoming one of the most cost efficient AT squad.

There is a very large number of general issues that need to be fixed like:
pop
XP value
vet bonuses
vet abilities

and there are other issues that can be done by scope but only with the use of benchmark.

Wasn't there a time in which it was discussed to make it need ammo to use it such like the ZiS? What happened with this idea?

Sadly, none of your statements about the su76 is true. Su76 has less penetration than stug and fights against, in general, better armoured opponents. It also can't "kite endlessly". It actually can't kite at all becouse in 99% of situations it can't shoot on the move. This is becouse su-76 is the only vehicle in game that has a 0 degree firing cone, which means it can't change its line of fire to hit a moving target if its rotation is decided by the path of movement. So while it is possible to draw a path that lets a su76 fire on the move at a moving tank that is close (becouse it is a big target degree wise), it is pretty much impossible to do that on max range.

And by none, do you mean all? Strange grasp of English you have there.

"SU76 has far superior range and penetration to the Stug." Okay maybe "far" is an exaggeration, but

1) Su76 has 60 range, Stug has 50 range.

2) Penetration values:

Su-76 (0/30/60) 200/190/180
Stug (0/25/50) 200/185/170

3) Speed: Can't be bothered, are you crazy Allied fanboys really going to claim that the Su76 doesn't have high acceleration/speed values?

4) You claim that Su76 "can't kite at all". I'm pretty sure at least a thousand players have proven you wrong. Or maybe you don't know what kiting is.

From urban dictionary: Basically a hit-and-run technique commonly used in games

With 60 range, you shoot first. Then you pull back, which is really easy to do using the reverse button/hotkey. Assuming it's not one of those maps where a small branch can mess up vehicle pathing, you can easily get 2 shots off without exposing yourself to counter-fire. In any case, most players will be too cautious to dive deep into your territory with a weakened vehicle because any reasonable SU player will have mines/Cons/Guards.

You can kite even with slow vehicles like the su85. Kiting is basically about using your superior range to force enemies to chase/commit to diving you. Even rank 500 players are doing reasonably well, so I find it preposterous that you don't understand this concept.

Your comment about "shooting on the move" is also pretty ridiculous and shows once again how you know nothing about the game. Given the 50% penalty for shooting on the move, most decent players will shoot, reverse, press "Stop" hotkey, and shoot again.

1) Su76 has 60 range, Stug has 50 range.

What are health and armor values again?

2) Penetration values:

Su-76 (0/30/60) 200/190/180
Stug (0/25/50) 200/185/170

What are allied meds armor stats and what are axis meds armor stats and average armor?

3) Speed: Can't be bothered, are you crazy Allied fanboys really going to claim that the Su76 doesn't have high acceleration/speed values?
.3 Speed Advantage
.2 acceleration Advantage
allied tanks may be slightly faster, but stug is actually able to survive frontal cqc engageemnt

4) You claim that Su76 "can't kite at all". I'm pretty sure at least a thousand players have proven you wrong. Or maybe you don't know what kiting is.

To kite you need LOS, which so76 does not have on ist own and if you use spotter, stug can do the same.

With 60 range, you shoot first. Then you pull back, which is really easy to do using the reverse button/hotkey. Assuming it's not one of those maps where a small branch can mess up vehicle pathing, you can easily get 2 shots off without exposing yourself to counter-fire. In any case, most players will be too cautious to dive deep into your territory with a weakened vehicle because any reasonable SU player will have mines/Cons/Guards.

Everyone will pull away from poking td, stug does the same, difference is if you hit once with stug, you only need 3 more shot to finish med, if you hit twice with su76, you still Need 4 more accurate shots.
And if sov Player will have mines cons or guards, so will axis Player have grens, PGs and tellers.

You can kite even with slow vehicles like the su85. Kiting is basically about using your superior range to force enemies to chase/commit to diving you. Even rank 500 players are doing reasonably well, so I find it preposterous that you don't understand this concept.

No, you cant because you are not mobile enough and DPS is too low in that particular case youll be chased down and circled.
If there is inf to protect, then there is inf to protect stug as well.

Your comment about "shooting on the move" is also pretty ridiculous and shows once again how you know nothing about the game. Given the 50% penalty for shooting on the move, most decent players will shoot, reverse, press "Stop" hotkey, and shoot again.

StuG have higher accuracy, lower scatter, MUCH damage(Needs 4 shots vs med, when su76 Needs 6, 7 at vet), MUCH higher durability.
If you do the stop trick, you arent going to escape or kite anything, there is a reason why its used only by med tanks against infantry or other tanks which are far away.

.....

remember tier exist in this game

Make the SU76 barrage ability global cooldown for all Su76 managed by the player. So you can spam the ability with multiple Su76.

Problem solved?

Make the SU76 barrage ability global cooldown for all Su76 managed by the player. So you can spam the ability with multiple Su76.

Problem solved?

let's do the same with blitzkrieg kappa