Eastern Front Armies Revamp

I'll leave this question here: if FRP were to return/stay for whatever reason, how should it work?

Lower their impact by:
1) Delay them with tech level (For instance: OKW need a second truck UKF, need to unlock t3)
2) Allow them only in sector adjacent to base sector

Give EFA also a frp. Like the halftrack or m5.

Halftrack idea sounds interesting for Soviets, it could be an alternative upgrade where neither weapons nor reinforcement from the same halftrack is possible, plus the toggle makes them immobile. You could however garrison a squad in that halftrack to provide a modicum of fighting power to ward off attackers, but of course this makes them vulnerable to artillery. That way you can park it next to a friendly player's source of reinforcement and healing to promote teamwork, or just spend more fuel and popcap for another halftrack.

Currently FRP give USF, UKF and OKW an unfair advantage over ostheer and the soviets.

On the offensive it allows for insane presure and lower the impact of machineguns and overall better unit management.

On defense it provides a strong staying power and allow indirect fire weapons to survive counterbattery fire.

Thing is, it is different for every faction. Allied factions requiere unit combos: Mayor+ambulance and FRP+upgraded Tommies
OKW can access to the FRP, a reinforcement point and healing in the same package.

I've heard balancing its also giving new options to players but FRP counterdicts some of the basic principles of CoH, as a game that rewards unit preservation, superior micro and better tactics.

FRP magnifies any imbalances in infantry much ups and increases the snowball effect. Proliferating FRP would actually be bad for balance.

They impact should simply be lessen.

Give EFA also a frp. Like the halftrack or m5.

Halftrack idea sounds interesting for Soviets, it could be an alternative upgrade where neither weapons nor reinforcement from the same halftrack is possible, plus the toggle makes them immobile. You could however garrison a squad in that halftrack to provide a modicum of fighting power to ward off attackers, but of course this makes them vulnerable to artillery. That way you can park it next to a friendly player's source of reinforcement and healing to promote teamwork, or just spend more fuel and popcap for another halftrack.

+1

wehrmacht and soviet can use Halftrack as retreat point, but it should be doc or non-doc ?

Frp promotes bad play (just assault, if gone Bad just retreat and be on the assault 20sec later again).
Remove it or build a doctrine solely around it.

I'll leave this question here: if FRP were to return/stay for whatever reason, how should it work?

Have you considered why they have FRP in first hand?

I'm not against removing FRP but you'll have to completely redesign USF and maybe OKW. I'll only talk for USF and let OKW experts talk for them.

USF is a faction without late game, USF don't have a tank that can stand without infantry.
There is no equivalence to stock panther, brumbar or King Tiger to stay there a bit more taking the charge while you reposition your army around.
In term of doctrinal tank, USF is in the same situation, you only have one single tank on one single doctrine that can soak damage to let you reposition your army.
To end with the tank "side", all your tanks are paper made and all of them are strongly subject to RNG. You can have a M36 be stopped at mid range and still see your shells bounce from any late game tank armor. Panthers are inaccurate on the move, but stopped and at mid range, you're sure to pierce anything you hit from the USF arsenal excepted the pershing.

As USF you also don't have...
You don't have 6men support squads that can also take the charge and hold the line and USF doesn't have conscript to merge your support squad so you don't need to retreat them.
You don't have a half-track that let you reinforce anywhere on the battlefied and you don't have a bunker letting you reinforce on the line.
You don't have an easy access to HMG and Atgun, no you have or an HMG or an ATgun till you unlock all your tiers.
You don't have access to stock rocket artillery or heavy artillery. Your only "stock arty" require a squishy 3men squad, have a really short range and requires sight. And while using your artillery you don't have access to the FRP.

As USF you have.
Strong Riflemen squads, expensive and requiring 2 fuel upgrades and 120 munitions to be fully operative. And if you don't have them on the battefield you can't do shit. People are bitching around grenadiers being weak, but a grenadiers cost 240 and with a unique 60 munitions upgrade becomes better than a RM with also a single upgrade too and also have access to their grenade.
So the Major and FRP is there to support the rifles which in return support your squishy tanks. Lose your RM and the game is over. Remove the FRP = lose your RM = the game is over.

OR, as I say at the begining, you've decided to completely redesign the faction and Relic let you do so. In that case, as I say, I'm not against removing FRP from the game. Just good luck.

Game is getting increasingly more complicated with all these new mechanics, don't forget that it still has to be friendly for new players because the learning curve is already pretty steep. Sometimes less is more.

I'm against removing FRP, because it remove important gameplay options from the game.

Rather, i would give them to all factions with the same timing as the USA major.

How :

Ost:

-Add it as un bunker upgrade (same timing as US major ) using the same upgrade button : can't be on the same bunker as healing or reinforcement.

Sov:

-Add it as an M4 halftrack's upgrade (same timing as US major).
-Make the base medic mobile so they can go to the front.

OKW:

-Add it as an infra-red halftrack's upgrade (same timing as US major).
-Add the healing box supply drop from it. (remove it from pio)


US:
Add it as an ambulance's upgrade (same timing/cost as it was with the major).
Remove it from major.

Now i see it as a balance tweak and an improvement to the game.

This is the way to go.

So the usf major plus weapon racks. Okw and brits also don't have nondoc "third party reinforce" options and okw doesn't have any weapon racks, and I don't know how you would give major weapon racks.

Use some imagination please.

Let Brits unlock an M5 when they research engineers. Stuka could act as reinforcement platform for OKW. Major could drop a table down with black market guns on it for all I care.

mind if i ask, when will this patch apply?

FRP has no utility in 1v1 but are literally cancer in teamgame, it encourages blobing and contradicts the mecanic of unit preservation, and the concept of tactic.

Imagine just a moment the chaotic situation of teamgame if all factions have access to FRP.

Please just remove it.

Game is getting increasingly more complicated with all these new mechanics, don't forget that it still has to be friendly for new players because the learning curve is already pretty steep. Sometimes less is more.

But more is always more, which is even more simple to understand. :|

mind if i ask, when will this patch apply?

It's not a patch, this is a mod that the people who made the community patches are making.

WHat I need for My USF

Rifles - Fix lunch time for AT grenade (may be change mechanic) and it would ne nice to lock it behind upgrade or something.

RE -

mortar - 70 range addintional damage vs garrison

Leut - fix 50 reinforce cost if first model in que is officer (cost 250 to reinforce 4 models)

.50 cal - fix deathloop

AA - 8??popcap? wtf? (Ostheer flame HT has 5 popcap)

M20 - 340 mp wtf? 6 popcap ? wtf? (222 had 5 pop cap) Why should USF pay 70 ammo foe armor (222 got free autocannon ontop)

Stuart -

Captain fix 50 reinforce cost if first model in que is officer (cost 250 to reinforce 4 models)

AT gun has poor mobility for "mobile designe" vet ability for 30 ammo? wtf? VERY Poor accuracy poor penetration


Major remove sprit fix 40 reinforce cost if first model in que is officer

Sherman -

Scott 10 popcap??

Jackson - VERY Poor accuracy

The latest changes to the mod bring the following changes to EFA:

Shock troops
- Removed smoke recharge bonus from Vet2
- Improved smoke recharge bonus at Vet1 to the old Vet2 (from -33% to -40%

IS-2
- Capture points at Vet1 replaced with fragmentation shot; this is an inaccurate shot that can target ground and works like a canister shot ability

Artillery officer
- Population cap further reduced to 6

The latest version of the mod also brings the following changes to the OKW faction

OKW changes
Show Spoiler

This commitment from the mods keeps my love for coh2 alive!

One suggestion though, why not just replace OKW base flaks with the ostheer base bunkers since they'll no longer damage planes, which would make planes a good decoy to make the base flaks attacks the planes and then infiltrate okw base with other troops?

I'll leave this question here: if FRP were to return/stay for whatever reason, how should it work?

Remove it for all factions. It promotes bad play, promotes blobbing, reduces the effectiveness of blob counters in the form of mgs, makes defensive positions even harder to dislodge since the entire brit or okw blob just retreats to it at the slightest sign of trouble.

There isn't even that much that needs to be done. Of course all factions need to have on the field reinforce options. Ukf have just that with the forward assembly, which could potentially see a cost reduction at best. OKW could get access to reinforce bunkers since that would distinguish it from a more mobile option that ost has in the form of the ht and it would probably not create new problems with an already very aggressive faction being able to be even more aggressive with a movable reinforce point.

The forward assembly already fits ukf as a defensive faction.

There is potentially a point to be made about usf and keeping their FRP as it comes late and both the major and ambulance are very fragile units. There were some good points in the argument made by Esxile. However, even if USF had to lose it as well, that wouldn't require a redesign of the faction. I'm not even that sure how much of an impact it would have on most 1s and 2s at all.

I test mod (thx Osinyagov for help) and here is my two cents meaning:
- M3A1 have some nerf but i don't see at thx for "Gains Shared Veterancy". M3A1 vet 3 is realy now. Wow. Second, medical crates give sov something which they had not had so long that they had forgotten that they needed it. Field heal. 45 ammo is some sort lot but you can use 3 time so it OK:
- M-42 is cool. It's hit no so hard like Puphen but good enough to drive away a Pz.II or even Pz.IV . Vet 1 still trash, "counter vehicle" command don't work inside buildings and gun barrel sticking out of the house wall looks ridiculous.
- Guards. It was always a wierd squad.
Show Spoiler
And now they have 1 PTR? LOL WUT. All know than PTR is suck. It's historically by the way
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Even 2 PTR can't stand vs flammetrack, 222 or Luchs. You need at least 4 of them. And better have AT- grenades somewhere near. From the description in the game "Disabling fire" work not obvious. According to the description it's de-buff like "button". But i see buff icon on my Guards, ossttrupen style. Went to read patch notes.
I like "Hit the Dirt" as 1 vet - squad stop thresh about and opened fire. Have some def buffs I suspect? It can not hurt.
I use LMG because if i need one or two PTR squad i take penals. And if i need mass PTR i take cons-PTR doctrine. And...i mean an elite squad of infantry with 3 PTR? LOL WUT. Just imagine Obers squad with 2-3 PTR, no stg or LMG. His opponent will fall from the chair with laughter, break hands in the fall and Axis victory will be easy. No, just no.
I like new skins for T-34 with lots of details. Price change is less then 10% so i don't care. Considering that I know one (1) doctrine that allows use T-34-76 more or less efficient... i do not think that place T-34-76 in game will change.
ML-20 price change is good, 400 mp and 600 mp is a big difference. 50 fuel is OK.
Katyusha new vet 1 "Incendiary Walking Stuka style" is OK, at least somthing usefull for Katy. Yeah, not big fan original "Creeping Barrage".
Oh! I also see new sov FHQ from ally. Looks nice.

This is very subjective. For example all the above can be said about RA with minimal corrections

There is no equivalence to stock panther, brumbar or King Tiger to stay there a bit more taking the charge while you reposition your army around.
In term of doctrinal tank, USF is in the same situation, you only have one single tank on one single doctrine that can soak damage to let you reposition your army.
To end with the tank "side", all your tanks are paper made and all of them are strongly subject to RNG. You can have a M36 be stopped at mid range and still see your shells bounce from any late game tank armor.

It's not a patch, this is a mod that the people who made the community patches are making.

owh tnx u, thought it was a patch..was studying hard on the new Buff and Nerf

- Guards. It was always a wierd squad.
Show Spoiler

And now they have 1 PTR? LOL WUT. All know than PTR is suck. It's historically by the way
Show Spoiler

Even 2 PTR can't stand vs flammetrack, 222 or Luchs. You need at least 4 of them. And better have AT- grenades somewhere near. From the description in the game "Disabling fire" work not obvious. According to the description it's de-buff like "button". But i see buff icon on my Guards, ossttrupen style. Went to read patch notes.

I agree that they have lost their elitism right now.
Still, I think that the Lend-Lease bazooka is needed by usual Guard and Lend-Lease Guard need to foresee something else

Guard should choose from two options:
- Two bazookas for 100 ammunition, plus an anti-tank ability will make them a solid anti tank
- Two DP-27 should make them a solid distance unit