Soviet sniper unfair

That's simply wrong.

Unlike the Ostheer sniper the Soviet Sniper is not an assasin, it can't move around the battlefield staying cloaked. Eventually the Ostheersniper can easily countersnipe the soviet one with vet 1. Plus the two-model sniper team is actually a disadvantage since it bleeds way more manpower compared to a single sniper.

It's fine. To be honest the reset of cooldown with the Vet 1 ability is kinda broken.

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+1

PS: grats for #1000

Soviet sniper OP now. I'm calling it M5 HT with AA gun is also still OP since it still suppress squads. Or we should say T34/76 is OP because it kills infantry reliably and spammable to counter AT.

If we nerf Sov sniper, we might as well rename the faction to "Penal Union"

Plus the two-model sniper team is actually a disadvantage since it bleeds way more manpower compared to a single sniper.

That don't make no sense, if the German sniper dies, you just lost 360 manpower. You can move on from there and try something else, but that doesn't change the fact that losing the German sniper (which happens quite easily) is a significantly higher bleed in all aspects than losing a single model of the Soviet team.

With the recent changes to cloak, the German sniper also loses much of its offensive nature, so even that part is not entirely true anymore.

That said, I don't see how any of that necessitates any changes, considering that the Soviets have had quite the heavy nerfs in other areas. The T-70 got toned down quite severely, which was probably the single most annoying way to use snipers in combination with. That synergy is mostly gone, and thus the combination of T-70 and sniper isn't powerful enough anymore to warrant a nerf or change.

There is also no need to change the German sniper in this regard, because the German sniper was always meant as a harassment tool, to either prey on hurt squads not being pulled back instantly (because the German sniper can indeed put quite a hurt on a 3 men Conscript squad), or by weakening approaching enemies sufficiently for your Grens to take them out on approach. That role is still sufficiently met, so there should be no need to change.

That don't make no sense, if the German sniper dies, you just lost 360 manpower. You can move on from there and try something else, but that doesn't change the fact that losing the German sniper (which happens quite easily) is a significantly higher bleed in all aspects than losing a single model of the Soviet team.

It makes plenty of sense - the OST Sniper is a one time 360 MP cost whereas the Soviet sniper costs 180 MP every time you drop a model on top of the 360 MP initial cost. So you ALWAYS spend more MP on Soviet Sniper unless you lose both models on their first tour of duty. When you take into account that Soviet Team has inferior stealth and often faces off against LMG greens where a single burst is enough to kill a model... well you can do the math.

Soviet snipers have 64 hitpoints, and both can die to a single mortar shell.

This is in addition to the atrocious aim-time of the sniper team.

I find the debate on which sniper bleed more rather irrelevant.

The current issue is that with changs to camo Ostheer sniper has trouble countering Soviet sniper team before hitting vet 1.

Um, Scout Car? Scout Car? You don't *have* to counter snipe to counter Soviet Sniper - not to mention that sticky satchels are a lot harder to land on 222 than AT nade so if they do go Tier one it's a lot easier to dive for sniper AND counters scout car. Also, now that Coax machine gun tracks properly its a lot better vs. sniper in my experience.

My main principle is a compact and effective army, in 1 on 1 this is not possible. Just look at the typical 1 to 1 мatches - this is damn spam, 5 - 6 squads of conscripts,1 machine gun, 1 gun. nope thanks.

My main principle is a compact and effective army, in 1 on 1 this is not possible. Just look at the typical 1 to 1 мatches - this is damn spam, 5 - 6 squads of conscripts,1 machine gun, 1 gun. nope thanks.

So 222 isn't a viable counter to Sniper "because spam"? There is NO way Soviet can tech both T1 and T2 (for support weapons) spend 360 MP on a sniper, AND still have enough MP for that many Conscipts before you can get a 222 out onto the field as OST. 9 times out of 10 if a Soviet player goes T1 they won't side tech for support weapons which means all you have to do is worry about AT nades on maybe 3 conscripts max. Don't exaggerate. If your opponent manages to accumulate that many squads and the sniper is still alive you are just getting outplayed plain and simple.

Total Cost for a single 222

T1 ----------80/10
Research T2--100/40
Built T2-----200/20
222----------250/30
Total--------630/100


Imo 221 should be reintroduced and be available early as counter to transport and 222 can become better VS armored vehicles maybe witth price increase.

Soviet sniper is fine.

It is harder to deal with as OKW than OST

It is harder to deal with as OKW than OST

If 1 kubel isn't enough, then 2 probably would be.

This unit like any other has his pros and cons.

Personally what annoys me in a soviet sniper
- it cannot be counter snipe straight by ostheer sniper becouse of 2 model squad. So you need to get vet1 -> you loose element of a suprise. Don't do meansion that if you gonna be to sloppy he may counter snipe your counter snipe trading 1 model for ostheer sniper.
- okw doesn't have a sensible basic unit to counter sniper in a long range. Ok, there are commanders with falls, jeagers etc but no basic unit. You can only flank it or chasse to base but good player won't let that happen. There are also leigs - but more or less it's base on rng.

His weakness:
- as Luvnest meansioned even loosing 1 model is a huge mp lost.
- Soviet sniper has less hp than their equivalents.
- it's cloaking is worse than rest of the snipers so counter snipe is easier, flaking is easier, diving with light vehicle is easier.
- his vet 1 is meh (can be usefull but comparing it to OST or UKF sniper it's just meh)
- going for a early sniper puts you behind in a map control -> enemy early vehicles spam

Don't think this unit gonna be change in the next incoming months so best way is to just try to adapt, figure out a good strat to counter this kind of play (replays/videos on youtube etc should help).

I think OKWs basic counter to snipers is supposed to be kubelwagens. Doesn't really play out that well. They're no vCoH bike, or even a schwimmwagen in that respect.

Now that I think about it, there's also the IR HT, but the sniper's cloaking isn't really the problem now is it.

It makes plenty of sense - the OST Sniper is a one time 360 MP cost whereas the Soviet sniper costs 180 MP every time you drop a model on top of the 360 MP initial cost. So you ALWAYS spend more MP on Soviet Sniper unless you lose both models on their first tour of duty. When you take into account that Soviet Team has inferior stealth and often faces off against LMG greens where a single burst is enough to kill a model... well you can do the math.

When you loose a soviet sniper model , su is down 180 mp.

When you loose ost sniper, ost is down 360 mp.

I wonder which is better?

When you loose a soviet sniper model , su is down 180 mp.

When you loose ost sniper, ost is down 360 mp.

I wonder which is better?

It's 90mp, but the Soviet sniper is also easier to kill per models -especially since axis are generally better at range than allies- and can be AOE'd by any 80 damage source while having worse cloak and aim-times. The only thing it has going for it is two models.

Soviet sniper appears fine to me. Its lower health and more limited leathality make it useful for high value targets only.

I'm a mainly axis player but occasionally play Allies.

When playing Axis and seeing a Soviet sniper my reaction = FREE VETERANCY!

When playing Soviets and seeing axis sniper = O shit.

Edit: I did have a game recently where a Soviet player was having difficulty on port of hamburg from moving us off the fuel point. We didn't see him for awhile so I knew he was mustering up something. I expected a massive Penal spam incoming. Instead, 4 sniper teams moved up and wiped out all our MG's in fairly short order and bled down the Volks squads to needing to retreat before they could get to the snipers. They did take the point back briefly but eventually the heavy investment in Sniper spam didn't work out for them. But at least for that moment it was a viable tactic.

The soviet sniper is definitely the worst sniper in the game, even though with last changes to cloaking the gap is smaller than before. The 2 men squad is the only advantage it has over brit and ost ones, every other stat is worse. And in fact this is often a disadvantage becouse it gets wiped so easily with any random shot, especially mortar one.

If the models were 81 hp then yeah, I would say it is an unfair advantage. But they are not so all the soviet sniper team can do is cry in the corner.

Generaly this sniper is used at very noob level. Not above. Or when playing vs noobs to laugh.
Have it been used at gcs at all? Most likely not.

First it can easily be counter sniped at any stage.
At latter stages normal snipers (and okw raks) are used as a scout unit at the front providing extremely valuable vision. But this one is utterly not suitable for doing this. I'd likely to see him even without rifle at all but with normal cloak just to give vision.