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russian armor

The maxim change impact too much Soviets.

14 Apr 2017, 16:13 PM
#21
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2017, 13:19 PMDelodax


Will be interesting to ser hon them fare post group stages. Haven't watched any placement games but in the streams featuring Soviets I've watched they've looked pretty solid.


Most of the streams are top 10 players versus whoever they get in an automatch. The skill difference is usually enough that the faction doesn't matter. In the GCS, where they play mirror matchs for placement, there are still some mismatches but most of the time the skill difference isn't as great and Ost or OKW wins both.

After the placement matches, I'd expect that top seeds win with Soviets through the first couple rounds so the Soviet win rate would go up. After that, I'm not sure. If I was going to make a prediction, I'd bet it ends up at around 30%, assuming that top players keep using it. I'd also bet that most of the players switch to playing USF and the win rate ends up around 50%, with USF underperforming against OST and roughly equal against OKW.



14 Apr 2017, 16:35 PM
#22
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Meanwhile VonIvan plays only soviets and ostheer for GCS and he thinks soviets are fine.
14 Apr 2017, 16:57 PM
#23
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525

Meanwhile VonIvan plays only soviets and ostheer for GCS and he thinks soviets are fine.

Meanwhile Soviets won 6 matches out of what?23? yea,sure..."fiiiine"
14 Apr 2017, 17:09 PM
#24
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954


Meanwhile Soviets won 6 matches out of what?23? yea,sure..."fiiiine"


It is 5 out of 25, as of the last update. Is VonIvan playing under a different name or Dangerous-Cloth having difficulties with facts?
14 Apr 2017, 17:19 PM
#25
avatar of Delodax

Posts: 49

Meanwhile VonIvan plays only soviets and ostheer for GCS and he thinks soviets are fine.


Just kicked random auto-matcher jove's butt on stream ;)
Phy
14 Apr 2017, 18:29 PM
#26
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

SU wasnerfed properly. Penals, maxims, t70 needed that adjustment. But its time to buff other stuff, and cons should be the first to start with.
14 Apr 2017, 19:07 PM
#27
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2017, 18:29 PMPhy
SU wasnerfed properly. Penals, maxims, t70 needed that adjustment. But its time to buff other stuff, and cons should be the first to start with.


If Soviets were nerfed properly, they would not have went from OP to UP. Cons should have been buffed at the same time. Why do soviet players have to pay 400 mp and 30 fuel for a decent snare and one of the worst grenades in the game, especially when Ost and OKW get better ones for free.

Relic created this mess when they made different numbers of tiers for factions, made some tiers optional but not others, gave free tech to Axis, free squads to USF, etc, etc.

14 Apr 2017, 19:46 PM
#28
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Can we pls stop the "free" axis upgraded argument?, it does not hold water.

And actually OKW would be in much better place if the could buy their grenades as side-grade.
15 Apr 2017, 08:45 AM
#29
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

People here acting like Soviets didn't need nerfs lol. Penals are still strong, now have the strongest snare in the game. Maxims will still be potent, now actually can defend an area with their larger cone more effectively. T70 brought in line with other light vehicles, so no more gg machine.

The whining begins now that the easy mode a-move units have been nerfed of are still in the process of getting nerfed. As for the 'you are axis fanboy and delusional since you think Soviets need more nerfs': See my conscript thread :foreveralone:
15 Apr 2017, 08:59 AM
#30
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2017, 19:07 PMGrumpy


If Soviets were nerfed properly, they would not have went from OP to UP. Cons should have been buffed at the same time.


#SCOPE

balance mod maker would have done much more to fix RELIC game if they had the opportunity, sadly they were limited to a few "completely broken" units like penals without having the possibility to buff the less but still broken units like conscripts.

blame relic for fcking up their last opportunity to fix the whole game once for all, because with the new WWII RTS coming out this year coh2 is pretty much fcked.
15 Apr 2017, 10:06 AM
#31
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

I think I agree, the change will put soviets completely in the dumpster.
15 Apr 2017, 13:29 PM
#32
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954



#SCOPE

balance mod maker would have done much more to fix RELIC game if they had the opportunity, sadly they were limited to a few "completely broken" units like penals without having the possibility to buff the less but still broken units like conscripts.

blame relic for fcking up their last opportunity to fix the whole game once for all, because with the new WWII RTS coming out this year coh2 is pretty much fcked.


Ultimately, COH2 is Relic's game and the state of balance or imbalance is owned by them. It did seem like the balance team had a pro-axis bias but even that would be Relic's mistake since they chose the balance team.

I have been playing Steel Division. It plays more like a simulation than an arcade. It's a lot like Men Of War. I don't think a lot of the people that play COH2 are going to make the switch and stay there. Tanks don't have hit points. Practically every anti-tank gun will kill a Sherman in one shot. Panthers have good frontal armor but if you try charging with one, you'll discover that they have bad side armor and can be killed in one shot from the side.
15 Apr 2017, 13:44 PM
#33
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

I think I agree, the change will put soviets completely in the dumpster.


I do as well, I think leaving their vet one ability alone would be wise at this point. Other than that this is a very heavy handed nerf.

I'm fine with spam of this unit being nerfed, but out right making it horrid is a bit of a shame. At times it takes 2 full bursts just to suppress in yellow cover, green cover I don't think it's even possible with the patch.

In conjunction with cons being out of scope, I don't think we will next to ever see this unit.
15 Apr 2017, 14:04 PM
#34
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

If Sov infantry is to remain where it's at currently, then we're looking at needing T34-76 AT buffs, and improvements to call-ins like KV1, KV8, to strengthen them in the mid-game.
15 Apr 2017, 17:51 PM
#35
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2017, 13:29 PMGrumpy


Ultimately, COH2 is Relic's game and the state of balance or imbalance is owned by them. It did seem like the balance team had a pro-axis bias but even that would be Relic's mistake since they chose the balance team.

I have been playing Steel Division. It plays more like a simulation than an arcade. It's a lot like Men Of War. I don't think a lot of the people that play COH2 are going to make the switch and stay there. Tanks don't have hit points. Practically every anti-tank gun will kill a Sherman in one shot. Panthers have good frontal armor but if you try charging with one, you'll discover that they have bad side armor and can be killed in one shot from the side.


i wasn't speaking only about steel division, i don't remember the name exactly but i think it's "sudden strike 4" which is quite close from COH2.

but yeah, steel division is way less arcade than coh2 but it get much more funnier when you begin to understand all the mechanics + micro needed to win.
it just reward more the experience and knownledge on units (like you said, a sherman armor is not that good so you got to deal with that. on the other hand, their price is lower so you can buy 2 of them to attack a single german panther).
15 Apr 2017, 18:02 PM
#36
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954



i wasn't speaking only about steel division, i don't remember the name exactly but i think it's "sudden strike 4" which is quite close from COH2.

but yeah, steel division is way less arcade than coh2 but it get much more funnier when you begin to understand all the mechanics + micro needed to win.
it just reward more the experience and knownledge on units (like you said, a sherman armor is not that good so you got to deal with that. on the other hand, their price is lower so you can buy 2 of them to attack a single german panther).


Thx, I'll look for Sudden Strike also. Most of my friends already moved on to Steel Divisions, I'll probably play both.

I think COH would've been much better if they followed the Soviet model for all factions, but with a few minor tweaks. T0 = engineers, basic infantry, (maybe snipers and scout cars to counter), T1 = team weapons, T2 = light vehicles, T3 = basic tanks, TD's etc (requires T1 or T2), T4 = advanced armor - After that, use commanders so that players could adapt to game size and map. Had Relic done this, balance would've been much easier to do across all game sizes.
15 Apr 2017, 20:31 PM
#37
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Guys if you love Steel division then more to topic dedicated to it. This is thread about the maxims, Soviets and coh2. Not thread about SD N1944
15 Apr 2017, 20:33 PM
#38
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

maxim needs to be cheaper if its going to be nerfed or penals having a faster build time. The problem soviets have with their buildings if they don't go con spam in the opening then soviets have a relatively slow start.

maxin needs to be cheaper correct its to expensive
17 Apr 2017, 01:34 AM
#39
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

this guy is first of all an allied fanboy and second of all he is a 4v4 player and brings his expertise analysis on that noob game mode. Someone who isnt complete awful at this game knows 4v4 is just a spamfest and balance should be disregarded.
17 Apr 2017, 01:47 AM
#40
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

On the Maxim, we're still testing new values for the weapon in terms of suppression so it can stop charging infantry and making the vet 1 more powerful/useable.

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