Volksgrenadiers & Obersoldaten

Like I have stated, Obers are completely fine as they are! However, the majority do have a point in saying Obers come out a little too late and reinforce a little too long, but that shouldn't be enough to dissuade them from getting Obers. Come out late? They are meant for late-game AI powerhouse, of course they gonna come out later! Reinforce too long? Then don't let them lose models! Keep them behind Volks (Powerful at long-range, remember?) and voila! But then Volks, they are being a little bit too durable for what they cost, especially the upgrade which makes little to no senses. Since Obers fight behind Volks, while don't give Volks more close-range DPS through upgrade so at least, they won't steal all of Obers' kills.‎

I think Volks are also fine atm, they are cheaper than riflemen and sections and hence don't do the job once those are vet three and have double upgrades is the reason to get Obers. Giving Volks very mixed weapon profile upgrades will make them useless I think.

Upgrades for riflemen, sections, guards are eqaully a no-brainer and in line with their overall range and mobility profile, they just scale better than Volks. The only mainline infantry they outscale are Conscripts without ppsh. But in Soviet matches most people play Penals and Guards these days anyway and they fully outclass Volks.

The STG upgrade should be locked behind an upgrade, while medics should arrive free with the BGHQ. Obers are not fine, I am hoping we get the chance to experiment with the idea proposed below, which I agree with.

- Obersoldaten don't need passive suppression. If suppression-wars is the way to go, they could get a Paratrooper-like ability instead. Otherwise, they either need to come out earlier, or come out stronger to reward teching-over-callins (Commando-style frontloading). Aren't Obers supposed to be weathered-veterans type of unit?

It's very easy to dissuade yourself from not getting them since well, reasons... but try to give them a chance, and you'll be surprise! Also, about your response, yes, CalliOP and lmfao matresses are everywhere! But in 1v1, no bloody idiots are going to waste 1 full barrage onto just 1 Ober squad or 1 Ober + 1 Volks squad! Cause that's also just plain BS. And if he actually did barrage then well, he just waste it! Use it to your advantage!‎

Wait what ? Wasting barrage on obers in 1v1 ?

There is not better think that wiping 1 squad with your mattress/calliOP barrage. I always use it to land on HQ the moment squad arrive there, wiping his unit and all his vet.

"Losing" barrage for wiped gren squad is worth, not even counting obers

Volks are meant to be potent frontline infantry, and the OKW is an offensive faction. Volks being retardedly efficient as assault units is fine.

However Volks efficient nature plus call-ins renders Obers largely redundant unless the OKW player is floating MP. I'll probably be laughed at, but what if Volks and Obers were swapped? (With Obers becoming cheaper/Faust and Volks coming out of the box with Stg44s.

Volks are meant to be potent frontline infantry, and the OKW is an offensive faction. Volks being retardedly efficient as assault units is fine.

However Volks efficient nature plus call-ins renders Obers largely redundant unless the OKW player is floating MP. I'll probably be laughed at, but what if Volks and Obers were swapped? (With Obers becoming cheaper/Faust and Volks coming out of the box with Stg44s.

No faust on volks earlier would leave OKW even more open to light vehicles than they already are. They already have the rakatten meme gun and late fausts, although fausts are getting changed in WBP.

I meant weakened Obers with Faust in T0 and out of the box Stg44 Volks in T3

Volks are meant to be potent frontline infantry, and the OKW is an offensive faction. Volks being retardedly efficient as assault units is fine.

However Volks efficient nature plus call-ins renders Obers largely redundant unless the OKW player is floating MP. I'll probably be laughed at, but what if Volks and Obers were swapped? (With Obers becoming cheaper/Faust and Volks coming out of the box with Stg44s.

Volks are indeed efficient. However, what if their weapon upgrade wasn't just a plain bonus, but a role change? If Volks got five MP40s instead of StGs, or had the remaining two rifles exchanged with MP40s, they'd actually see a real change in role. They wouldn't be able to sit in cover in an extended firefight and would be forced to close. But they'd become much more capable flankers.

I see no reason Obers shouldn't at least get panzerfaust with some kind of vet.

But IMO OKW infantry would function best with: Volks have x5 MP40/STG CQC weapon upgrade. Sturmpioneers exchange schrecks for smoke grenades. Obers get x2 panzerschreck.

Panzerfusiliers role remains strong, but cannot fill Volks' assault upgrade role or Obers AT upgrade role. Similar with Jaeger Light Infantry.

Fallschirmjager are kind of a unique ugly duckling. I've never really been able to use them effectively outside of alphastriking katyushas and ATG walls anyway.

However, it is worth noting that I still think it's ridiculous that Volks get a stock StG upgrade but there are zero stock PPsH upgrades for Soviets.

.... Since Obers fight behind Volks, while don't give Volks more close-range DPS through upgrade so at least, they won't steal all of Obers' kills.‎

It is damage that gives XP not Kills.

Derp? How? Their Vet 5 is lacklustre.

I did not claim that VG vet 5 is OP. I simply pointed out is that the most common unit to reach Vet 5 as OKW.

When shreck was removed from VG people though that VG blob would be replaced by SP blob. They did not. The ST44 is actually so strong that allows VG to reach vet 5 even without the shreck.

And again I am not sot saying that they should be nerfed since allied infantry are far more OP.

Actually all infantry should be re-balanced one vs the other as they where made in the "Update September 9th, 2014"

I like obers as is, duel obers vs any allie infantry get annihilated

How the fuck do you pull this off?
Every time I field Obers, they get shredded, and I end up raging because 400mp wasted...

How the fuck do you pull this off?
Every time I field Obers, they get shredded, and I end up raging because 400mp wasted...

its not easy and i will admit if one bad arty or rocket round lands on a vanilla squad its disastrous, but i mostly use a shield of volks in front of them. The real trick, (like Panzer Grens) is to get them to vet 2, once there the surviblity goes way. Its just hard to get to that point. I use them as a defensive unit until they get vet 2 then they are a "assualt" unit.

Everytime my double wielding Bren IS finds obers...they shredd them into nirvana.

my double wielding bar rifles do the same....even my penals can deal with them...

I don´t know what do u talk about.

Probably once you stop Brits/USF from getting double death riffles the Obers will be more useful. As it stands they come out against double British hand held long range lock on laser death cannons and get murdered then take forever to reinforce. I don't think the Obers are too weak, more like other units over perform with double equip.

Obers don't need the little balance attention we have available to us, it's the other specialist units that needs working (the doctrine infantry) they all seem fairly ineffective at this time compared to Volks/SturmPio combos.

I like playing with Obers but the thing is that it feels like 90% of all games you lose your whole squad in a single hit.

If I overextend my Obers and they die, it is my fault, but if my Obers die to a single mortar shot almost all of the time, then this is the main problem with these dudes atm.

Hopefully this gets fixed with the spacing changes in WPB, same goes for Falls.

Obers are very strong and IRStG 44 will win behind green cover against every single other inf unit in the game (as it ignores cover bonusses). Unfortunately the current meta is all about mortars and indirect fire which is the worst thing for Obers as they feel like Fabergé eggs.

What...?

Volksgrenadiers do not do damage.

Obersoldaten deal enough damage to wipe a six-man squad in under 10 seconds of sustained fire.

The problem with Obers is the same as with the entire Wehrmacht faction and all 4-man squads in general: four model squads simply aren't viable, at all, ever, under any circumstances short of the opponent being mentally handicapped, because they lose their first model instantly upon engaging any threat.

Thing is that by the time you get to T4 you'd want tanks out rather than a more expensive anti-infantry squad that's even smaller in size than Volksgrenadier. Which is why I advocate giving them panzerschreck upgrade. Sturms might also have it but you'd really prefer keeping them repairing things, and Volks can retain the infantry meat shield role while they dish out the damage.

Thing is that by the time you get to T4 you'd want tanks out rather than a more expensive anti-infantry squad that's even smaller in size than Volksgrenadier.

Well, the thing is you can't immediately roll tanks out, can you? When do you setup your Schwere? Cause if you set up right at the moment you have enough fuels for it, you'll have to wait quite a while before you can roll the first tank out, which by that time, you should have enough MP for 1 Obers.

Then the way you think Obers is JUST a more-expensive AI unit is what harming Obers. You think Volks are enough for AI role, so you don't want Obers (Which is fair cause Volks sometimes really are enough). That's why I want Volks to excel at role that Obers don't, so Obers can truly shine as long-range assault/AI unit. To be honest, Volks with Schreck was having a good synergy with Obers (AT units with AI units) but well, Volks with Schreck was too much for both sides so fixing that, we accidentally broke the synergy. Now, the best thing can happened to recreate the synergy is either Volks get upgrade to be close-range combatants (More suitable due to how they are right now, just needs slight tweaking) or give them upgrade to be AT units (The old synergy, even Schreck can works cause the reason why Schreck blob was so painful was because of Volks' old vet, now they don't have that, we can give it a try, or even with a slower reload for Volks' Schreck if needed. Basically, it's not that doable compared to the one I proposed).‎

I actually really enjoy using obers when I play okw. The thing is, you're not really supposed to just stick them up front and let them soak damage, despite the pretty good target size they get right off the bat. The way I see it, you screen with stg volks, which are more durable and less likely to all get blown up by one Sherman, and will keep the allied infantry off the obers backs, and the obers will sit in the back and provide fire support for the volks. If you do it right, the obers really shouldn't be taking fire at all. Of course, this is in a perfect world, but seeing as how cost effective and no-brainer volks are now, I think obers are a good supporting troop, and can be really really powerful if you use them right.

Well, the thing is you can't immediately roll tanks out, can you? When do you setup your Schwere? Cause if you set up right at the moment you have enough fuels for it, you'll have to wait quite a while before you can roll the first tank out, which by that time, you should have enough MP for 1 Obers.

Then the way you think Obers is JUST a more-expensive AI unit is what harming Obers. You think Volks are enough for AI role, so you don't want Obers (Which is fair cause Volks sometimes really are enough). That's why I want Volks to excel at role that Obers don't, so Obers can truly shine as long-range assault/AI unit. To be honest, Volks with Schreck was having a good synergy with Obers (AT units with AI units) but well, Volks with Schreck was too much for both sides so fixing that, we accidentally broke the synergy. Now, the best thing can happened to recreate the synergy is either Volks get upgrade to be close-range combatants (More suitable due to how they are right now, just needs slight tweaking) or give them upgrade to be AT units (The old synergy, even Schreck can works cause the reason why Schreck blob was so painful was because of Volks' old vet, now they don't have that, we can give it a try, or even with a slower reload for Volks' Schreck if needed. Basically, it's not that doable compared to the one I proposed).‎

I still think giving cheap five man squads arguably the best at weapons would be too much of a slap in the face to basically all allied armor. They would still have four kar98s and be 25mp to reinforce, making them way way better than zook riflemen or piat sections at basically everything, while still being cheaper.

I still think giving cheap five man squads arguably the best at weapons would be too much of a slap in the face to basically all allied armor. They would still have four kar98s and be 25mp to reinforce, making them way way better than zook riflemen or piat sections at basically everything, while still being cheaper.

I guess traditionally the Volks were meant to transition into anti-tank/filler melee squads mid game then late game your Obers were meant to be the dedicated inf fighting squads. But that all got pooped on when Lelic made the redesign of the entire team and gave the STG to the Volks and the Shrek to the Pios.

Really, if you haven't made huge mistakes by the time you get your T4; you should already have 3+ volks squads with good vet and STG making the 400+ man power investment in Obers totally pointless.

Probably this wont ever change until the roll Volks have changes or even Obers get their role changed in some way, both units occupy the same roll right now but one comes out late game with 0 vet, costs more and has less squad members.

Probably Volks need to go back to being anti tank in some way, like giving them double Shrek upgrade instead of STG and making the accuracy and damage a bit less to even it out; that way they won't be able to doom blob them because they wont be super effective, but effective enough to deal with over extended vehicles and inf squads. (or something I don't know, just thinking out loud).

I don't really understand why everyone wants the StG-upgrade for Volks to be a role changing upgrade, when the BAR for Riflemen isn't one either, especially as the effect of the StGs is much less an issue (even compared to only one BAR, which costs less).