Volksgrenadiers & Obersoldaten

I don't really understand why everyone wants the StG-upgrade for Volks to be a role changing upgrade, when the BAR for Riflemen isn't one either, especially as the effect of the StGs is much less an issue (even compared to only one BAR, which costs less).

Well, the thing is USF don't have any late-game non-doc Elite infantry like OKW has. They have to rely on Rifleman throughout the match (Lieutenant and Captain are very much a more specialized Rifleman squad) and they're rewarded for keeping them alive and upgraded. If you manage to wipe out USF's Rifleman, they'll just slowly falling apart and die (Kinda like how OKW was when they relied heavily on Volks' Schreck blobs. Without the blob, the faction was pretty much dead). However, with OKW now, they actually do have an Elite late-game infantry (Obersoldaten)! Yet, no one used them cause they're playing OKW the similar way they play USF: rely heavily on mainline troops, despite Volks are actually weaker and less utilities compared to Rifleman. OKW needs other late-game units to combat Rifleman and Obers are 1 of them! 

I don't really understand why everyone wants the StG-upgrade for Volks to be a role changing upgrade, when the BAR for Riflemen isn't one either, especially as the effect of the StGs is much less an issue (even compared to only one BAR, which costs less).

I do not know about everyone but for me, for same reasons that i find that LMG on riflemen, buffing SVT's DPS by X2, Penal's PTRS as not good designs.

Weapon profiles and relative positioning.

"Weapon profiles" is the concept that:
A)weapons should be categorized, so that players would not what to expect from their units without having to memorize all DPS curves.
B)Each weapon category should have a range that they excel instead of being about the same in all ranges, so that experienced players could make most out of there units.

Now OKW have a St44 on V.G. with completely different characteristic than the St44 on SP (The Ober ST44 is less of in issue). (The same way that WBP there 3 different types of PTRS with different characteristics)

"Relative positioning" is the concept that:
The player should be able to influence the result of fight by better positioning his units. For instance in a fight Riflemen vs V.G. the fight will go better for V.G. in it long range and worse if in mid range. The ST44 upgrade reduces the benefit the rifles will get by moving closer and thus reduces the players chance to influence the fight. (The same LMG riflemen can use their long range DPS to prevail even if the fight took place in long range.)

snip

That doesn't really explain the difference, IMO. Riflemen with their BARs also receive a massive boost to their long range DPS (a single BAR deals almost the same damage at long ranges as the entire squad without that BAR), which reduces the opposing players's ability to influence the fight through superior positioning.

That seems just as wrong as Volks becoming more powerful at long ranges when upgrading to assault rifles.

And William Christensen's argument about elite infantry also doesn't seem to work, if we consider how easily Riflemen vet up and how sturdy they become with veterancy (compared to actual elite infantry like PzGrens or Obersoldaten). Sure, they don't carry that specific distinction in title within the game files, but their performance tells an entirely different story.


How are we supposed to balance the idea of elite units like Obersoldaten within one army, if the next army has regular troops that for significantly less money perform better in the long run?

That doesn't really explain the difference, IMO. Riflemen with their BARs also receive a massive boost to their long range DPS (a single BAR deals almost the same damage at long ranges as the entire squad without that BAR), which reduces the opposing players's ability to influence the fight through superior positioning.
...

Comparing with riflemen is not a good start anyways because they are OP by faction design (and should imo be nerfed now that they have access to a cheap T0 mortar)

1 singe bar has about the DPS of 2,5 Garands at far actually.

Imo weapon upgrades should help a unit in specific ranges and not across they all ranges.

Obersoldaten's ability to move and fire with LMGs is often overlooked.

I mean, I forget about it all the time. But it has a huge implication for their ability to maneuver.

For me, Obers being entirely helpless against vehicles has been their greatest weakness.

Obersoldaten's ability to move and fire with LMGs is often overlooked.

I mean, I forget about it all the time. But it has a huge implication for their ability to maneuver.

For me, Obers being entirely helpless against vehicles has been their greatest weakness.

It is worth noting however that rifles and the few lmgs (34 and 1919) that fire on the move both have awful accuracy while moving. On the flip side, both those weapons on obers already have pretty insane damage, so you'll still end up doing a lot on the move too.

in times of calliOP and lmfao matress even pro players have trouble keeping the squad alive. now, keeping all models alive, thats just plain bs

And poor panzerwerfer was nerfed cause it was wiping squds,but caliOP and mattress still wipe a lot,also usf mortar(that will be fixed,i hope for the 3rd time)