Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.6 Update

I like how ppl bitching about DoW3, when its whole different team working on DoW3 and they are not connected with CoH2 aside from some individuals.

attitude reflects the result

Disrespectful post reported - and invised.

Back to topic.

I like how ppl bitching about DoW3, when its whole different team working on DoW3 and they are not connected with CoH2 aside from some individuals.

LOL you really belive CoH2 still got its development team working on CoH2? We have have no new decent content for over a year atleast.

Whatever. Waiting for iron harvest. Until then this game will only be played casually. Com0laining so much doesnt ever have much affect these days. Relic barley interacts.

DOW 3 cant image it will be much of an improvement. Dont forget good ol DLC which im sure youll see in that too

want the Imperial Guard? Buy now one fraction of the price of a new game! Buying right now !!!

In anticipation of the Iron Harvest. And traditional boycott DoW3

WTF is going on? I didn't wait this long for a small patch. This is seriously becoming a joke.

My thought exactly as well...

After seeing 1.6 changes I go from mildly interested in this game again with what this patch brings to not really interested much at all...

Why?
Because penals got the nurf bat?
Or were you a big fan of the other changes?

The patch is basically going to be a slight mod of penals, so tweaks and a number of bug fixes which should never have been allowed to go live. Not the modding team's fault at all, but again I just don't get Relic's insistence on underperforming.

Well said!
This is the classic bullcrap that happens with projects: what the customer wants vs what the project team delivers vs what the executives are paying for.

I applaud the modder's (Smith and co) nonetheless

I like how ppl bitching about DoW3, when its whole different team working on DoW3 and they are not connected with CoH2 aside from some individuals.

Most of relic employees, like programmers, graphic designers, game mechanic designers, people who tune stats and ballance and so on, work on the level of abstraction where it doesn't matter if they work on DoW franchise or CoH franchise. The games are very similar and the only guy there who is involved historiacally is Quinn Duffy. It's quite obvious and reasonable that they shift employees between both franchises. That is a reason why they release games of both franchises in turns and it is also a reason why there is nobody to there to implement the shere volume of changes that WBP team designed till 1.5.

Why?
Because penals got the nurf bat?
Or were you a big fan of the other changes?

Some of the other changes, also just the fact that no new changes to other units could be added. I particularly liked the wasp changes.

RELIC ENFORCES MORE CONTROL

what a surprise

Later version of WBP, I'd say is extremely unlikely. The Scope stepped in, and demanded a sacrifice in volume of changes to keep patch to a minimum.

The only way we will be seeing them back is if the community steps up and request them (e.g., for a future minor update).

Just make your own mod, guys. Screw relic's scope

I will have to state this again:

The buff to Pioneers and the changes to Assault Grens still don't make any sense. There is absolutely no reason to go for an Assault Gren squad over a second Pioneer squad, unless you know your opponent recently suffered a stroke, is partially immobilised, and thus incapable of dodging a rather easy to dodge grenade assault.

The combination of Pioneer buff and Assault Gren nerf (loosing their squad leader's body armour is actually the most important detail here) makes the performance of two Pioneer units together close enough to a single Assault Gren squad, while significantly boosting the survivability of your attacking units that outside of those grenades, Pioneers will provide significantly better pay-off in the short and in the long run.
There was the chance that Assault Grens could actually become somewhat adequate assault units early on (when healing is still quite limited) by receiving the same self-healing medkits Grens got in the WBP, but that was shut down by replacing the medkit with a buff to their sprint recharge...

Since Pioneers and Assault Grens perform too similar in the same role, I suggest that the DPS buff on Pioneers will be reverted (that was stupid to begin with) and Assault Grens receive their medkits back. On top of that, their received accuracy should be reworked: Right now they start out with the same RA as Pioneers (1), which is pants-on-head retarded for an assault unit that has to operate at distances where cover is ignored - this would have to be done in two steps to prevent their vet2 RA buff from becoming more powerful than it currently is (their final RA should stay the same), so their starting RA should be somewhat similar to normal Grens and their vet2 RA buff would have to be nerfed in order for them to end up at the same 0.71 RA at vet2.

Finally, for Assault Grens to offer something refreshing to the Ostheer and to solidify their role as assault units, their sprint should be replaced by a smoke grenade (due to their early arrival, that smoke grenade should be smaller and less lasting than the usual smoke grenades). Sprinting already didn't do anything for Assault Grens (among other reasons, it doesn't prevent them from taking damage, and it doesn't allow them to work as flanking units against MGs because they still get suppressed), and considering their poor performance this indirect buff to their capabilities would still be somewhat skill-limited and micro intensive enough to prevent them from becoming a no-brainer choice.

Pioneers on the other hand would fall back to their current role as combat support units in the best case - they still retain their longer than normal visual range to allow them to spot for MGs and StuGs, which is what they were meant to do. They are not Sturmpioneers, pushing them into the same direction by buffing their direct combat capability makes them way too useful for their current manpower cost compared to the Soviet Combat Engineers (and increasing that cost to reflect that is an even worse option).

I bet you have not even tested WBP if you think Pioneer DPS buff changed anything.

I bet you have not even tested WBP if you think Pioneer DPS changed anything.

It didn't change anything in the overarching balance of the entire game, but it did increase the identity problem between Pioneers and Assault Grens. That is of course not a significant balance problem to anything but these two units, but to deny its existence makes me doubt that you even tried replacing your first Assault Gren squad with a second Pioneer squad.

Because I did try it, and it worked exactly as I described it: Pioneers with their performance as of WBP 1.6 are better Assault Grens than Assault Grens, with the exception of that grenade ability. The Pioneer buff is actually not the most important thing here though, as I wrote above (reading does tend to help with understanding), the direct and indirect nerfs thrown onto Assault Grens are much more significant in this matter.

Because I did try it, and it worked exactly as I described it: Pioneers with their performance as of WBP 1.6 are better Assault Grens than Assault Grens, with the exception of that grenade ability. The Pioneer buff is actually not the most important thing here though, as I wrote above (reading does tend to help with understanding), the direct and indirect nerfs thrown onto Assault Grens are much more significant in this matter.

As much as I´m a fan of the good old Pionierspam I´m curious how this does not overthrow the balance to Soviet Combat Engineers which are only 20mp cheaper and have even less combat value.

where is the thread which summarized all changes of all iterations again?

Well, not really surprising from relic, in Dow 2, the elite mod ( created by the community ) is like the real competitive game.

Maybe its time to do the same thing with Coh2 ? or we still waste time with relic and "official patches" ?

They make a a new game, they drop support after some years, they create an other, etc ...

And one time they used the word "esport"... ahah nice one. Take exemple esport companies (Valve, Riot, Blizzard, many mores ...), few games, but really really well supported, always improved. thats like totally the opposite of Relic.

Thats not surprising that Esports organisms ignore Relic / Sega games

where is the thread which summarized all changes of all iterations again?

There you go:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/58826/wbp-merged-changelog-v1-0-to-newest

...the direct and indirect nerfs thrown onto Assault Grens are much more significant in this matter.

Reinforce cost lowered from 28 to 26
Grenade Assault munitions cost lowered from 45 to 30.
Grenade Assault aim-time and ready-aim time reduced by half to allow faster throwing.
Squad leader armour reduced from 1.5 to 1.
Medical kits removed.
Veterancy 1 now Grants -10% received accuracy and reduces recharge on sprint by 25%.
Fixed an issue where interrupting the Assault Grenadier grenade ability early enough would immediately reset the cooldown

Squad leader is a single unique (90% sure) model. Armor on any infantry units besides shocks, is an oversight coming from years ago when they remove it across the board. OH/OKW/UKF/USF officer models all have 1.0 armor.
Survivability is higher at vet1 (0.9x5 models vs 0.66 on a single one)

I fail to see all this huge nerfs.
Pios remain to be a 4 model squad, with lower dps (Near 7.06 vs 10.44) per model, and almost none combat vet in comparison to other infantry squads.
Pio: v1 Medkits, v2 +20% accuracy, v3 +15% accuracy, -15% CD
AG: v1-10% RA, v2 -25% CD, -29% RA, v3 +40% accuracy, +25% range on nade

Pio DPS starts to drop at range 5, AG at range 10. Pios are better at long ranges and will be better after the buffs, but no one uses those units at those ranges (0.3±).
AG MP40 are better on the move (0.75vs0.6) and they don't suffer from penalties against garrison (Pio MP40 for some reason are at 0.4 acc instead of 0.55)

...the direct and indirect nerfs thrown onto Assault Grens are much more significant in this matter.

Reinforce cost lowered from 28 to 26
Grenade Assault munitions cost lowered from 45 to 30.
Grenade Assault aim-time and ready-aim time reduced by half to allow faster throwing.
Squad leader armour reduced from 1.5 to 1.
Medical kits removed.
Veterancy 1 now Grants -10% received accuracy and reduces recharge on sprint by 25%.
Fixed an issue where interrupting the Assault Grenadier grenade ability early enough would immediately reset the cooldown

Squad leader is a single unique (90% sure) model. Armor on any infantry units besides shocks, is an oversight coming from years ago when they remove it across the board. OH/OKW/UKF/USF officer models all have 1.0 armor.
Survivability is higher at vet1 (0.9x5 models vs 0.66 on a single one)

I fail to see all this huge nerfs.
Pios remain to be a 4 model squad, with lower dps (Near 7.06 vs 10.44) per model, and almost none combat vet in comparison to other infantry squads.
Pio: v1 Medkits, v2 +20% accuracy, v3 +15% accuracy, -15% CD
AG: v1-10% RA, v2 -25% CD, -29% RA, v3 +40% accuracy, +25% range on nade

Pio DPS starts to drop at range 5, AG at range 10. Pios are better at long ranges and will be better after the buffs, but no one uses those units at those ranges (0.3±).
AG MP40 are better on the move (0.75vs0.6) and they don't suffer from penalties against garrison (Pio MP40 for some reason are at 0.4 acc instead of 0.55)

Thats not surprising that Esports organisms ignore Relic / Sega games

Yeah, its not that ESL picked up and created a total war league after Warhammer TW came out or anything.

My opinion has evolved and as I got very good feedback for vlogging my last opinion I thought I'd do the same again here. (dat ego.)



Let me know if you vehemently disagree!