Including more people in the balance team

We don't need more people on the team, we just need more people actually playing, giving us rational and non biased feedback and posting replays to support their claims. To help out us here, there will be tournaments down the line.

Most of the feedback is just noise making it difficult to get sensible feedback, especially since there's only a handful of replays posted so far.

well, it's quite hard to find an opponent and even more a good one.
i will give again a try this evening.

Having vast acknowled of the modding tools means nothing. AFAIK, the devs don't even use the modding tools for the live game, they use the their internal SDK.


Manners, a good sense of judgment, perfect acknowledge of units and ability stats, an analytical mind, respect trust of the whole active community and practicality are the characteristics which count.


Extended the list.

2 or 3 guys, who are not fully supported by the active community, is too small.

Additionally, introducing more people would ease up the stress on the current team and improve the decision making process.

Son, even if you know everybody in your combat unit, have their trust and respect, know the stats of your weapon and an analytical mind you'd still die in a real combat situation.

Experience and Knowledge tramples everything else, even rank.

We don't need more people on the team, we just need more people actually playing, giving us rational and non biased feedback and posting replays to support their claims. To help out us here, there will be tournaments down the line.

Most of the feedback is just noise making it difficult to get sensible feedback, especially since there's only a handful of replays posted so far.

The amount of things you can do are minimal, however I do believe more people will be required if Relic actually took their heads out of their asses and gave US, not just 3 people, but US as a community to make all of the necessary changes, not just some minor balance changes and bug fixes, it's not enough for a dying game.

This train came and left the station years ago. Relic has pissed off so many motivated outstanding community members over the years who spent hundreds of hours doing testing in private balance betas in private balance forums and all left frustrated and angry. Relic would then a year later gather up the next round of fanbois who didn't know any better and off they were to redo the cycle. Seeing as it looks that COH2 is coming to its EOL I imagine they want to put this game to bed like we did with 2.602 vCOH but they shoulda just helped ups make it amazing years ago instead.

I solute you guys I really do, but knowing stats and modding tools is how Relic balances this game in the first place and we all see how that works. Hell, if they had listened to us back in Beta we might be having a COH2 Dreamhack right now! Relic has had countless chances to do this right already and I think you guys are probably the last hope there is because I imagine most of the top level players have moved on, burnt out, or are just plain not willing to work with Relic again.

Imperial Dane has regular "state of the balance" casts and usually he is spot on.

He´s one of the few active members who agrees that the Panther is lackluster. When I hear others here suggesting making the Panther a glass cannon (which makes as much sense as a flying IS-2) or not touching it at all, I have little hope for any patch.

Also with 1200+ games casted alone, he probably has more insight than most. So I would definitely consider him.

Imperial Dane has regular "state of the balance" casts and usually he is spot on.

He´s one of the few active members who agrees that the Panther is lackluster. When I hear others here suggesting making the Panther a glass cannon (which makes as much sense as a flying IS-2) or not touching it at all, I have little hope for any patch.

Also with 1200+ games casted alone, he probably has more insight than most. So I would definitely consider him.

Dane is a caster, and this is what he is good at. If he wants to contribute, and I mean his decision, not people who watch him, he can always cast one of mods games. That would be the best place for his ballance insights and by putting this cast in one of feedback threads, he could suggest changes in a constructive, interesting and self-explanatory way. Even if he was on the team, there wouldn't be much more for him to do as the changes would still have to be implemented by the modders.

This train came and left the station years ago. Relic has pissed off so many motivated outstanding community members over the years who spent hundreds of hours doing testing in private balance betas in private balance forums and all left frustrated and angry. Relic would then a year later gather up the next round of fanbois who didn't know any better and off they were to redo the cycle. Seeing as it looks that COH2 is coming to its EOL I imagine they want to put this game to bed like we did with 2.602 vCOH but they shoulda just helped ups make it amazing years ago instead.

I solute you guys I really do, but knowing stats and modding tools is how Relic balances this game in the first place and we all see how that works. Hell, if they had listened to us back in Beta we might be having a COH2 Dreamhack right now! Relic has had countless chances to do this right already and I think you guys are probably the last hope there is because I imagine most of the top level players have moved on, burnt out, or are just plain not willing to work with Relic again.

Yeah it is pretty unfortunate. I've involved myself in discussions since 2.602. I was the guy that fought for g43 suppression and aligning the center of pe halftracks correctly so they werent a nightnare for pathing. Ive tried to contribute to coh2 and ive even built multiple simple testable mods to break forum theorycrafting. 5 man gren squads, giving the m42 atg with an Ai shell, numerous iterations of 222s, formation and squad spacing, and many versions that offered alternative teching pathways for factions. First efa then wfa. And most of all tiered resource points so I could try and salvage the countless hours I've spent in worldbuilder.

My efforts in trying to engage relic has been futile as I've been completely ignored since 2.602. My efforts in the community has been resoundingly dismissive at worst, and ignored at best.

I honestly have no idea why I continue to be active. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. The infighting among the community for coveted communication with relic and 'prominent' status has been an achilles heel.

Dane is a caster, and this is what he is good at. If he wants to contribute, and I mean his decision, not people who watch him, he can always cast one of mods games. That would be the best place for his ballance insights and by putting this cast in one of feedback threads, he could suggest changes in a constructive, interesting and self-explanatory way. Even if he was on the team, there wouldn't be much more for him to do as the changes would still have to be implemented by the modders.

Dude, Machine is a caster in the first place too.

Keep that in mind when you are talking about Dane.

This train came and left the station years ago. Relic has pissed off so many motivated outstanding community members over the years who spent hundreds of hours doing testing in private balance betas in private balance forums and all left frustrated and angry. Relic would then a year later gather up the next round of fanbois who didn't know any better and off they were to redo the cycle. Seeing as it looks that COH2 is coming to its EOL I imagine they want to put this game to bed like we did with 2.602 vCOH but they shoulda just helped ups make it amazing years ago instead.

I solute you guys I really do, but knowing stats and modding tools is how Relic balances this game in the first place and we all see how that works. Hell, if they had listened to us back in Beta we might be having a COH2 Dreamhack right now! Relic has had countless chances to do this right already and I think you guys are probably the last hope there is because I imagine most of the top level players have moved on, burnt out, or are just plain not willing to work with Relic again.

Pretty much this.

Relic barely posts nowadays too. Even when they do it's nothing worth noting.

Dane is another miragefla that will only buff Ost. end of discussion.

This is the point at which EVERYONE is part of the process. You want to have an influence on how the patch goes and what it does? okay this is what you do:

PLAY THE PATCH

upload the replays

Give logical feedback to issues you believe to be the results of the changes.

Also remember that we can only change things withing the 'scope' of the patch. These are things the whole community voted on. Remember all that hype about people voting on the shit they thought was most affecting the game? Well that defined the scope of the patch, there directly you and everyone else who voted decided on the changes.

how can i download the mod? also add me if you want some games

The community will never agree on whom would be ideal for a private alpha.

Somewhat true. But this issue is less important when there are more people involved.

This train came and left the station years ago. Relic has pissed off so many motivated outstanding community members over the years who spent hundreds of hours doing testing in private balance betas in private balance forums and all left frustrated and angry. Relic would then a year later gather up the next round of fanbois who didn't know any better and off they were to redo the cycle. Seeing as it looks that COH2 is coming to its EOL I imagine they want to put this game to bed like we did with 2.602 vCOH but they shoulda just helped ups make it amazing years ago instead.

This is quite depressing, and, unfortunately, true.

Edit: And actually: Get rid of the idea that being 'prominent' should be a factor at all. Just because youre relatively unknown among the community doesent mean that you havent done much for the game so far. And thats exactly why a popular vote like this one is quite useless IMO.

You are right, being a prominent old timer alone does not equal compotence and expertise in this field. This wasn't the only factor when making that list though. Don't forget that you guys were supposed to mention anyone you think is OK for the role too.

Dane is a caster, and this is what he is good at. If he wants to contribute, and I mean his decision, not people who watch him, he can always cast one of mods games. That would be the best place for his ballance insights and by putting this cast in one of feedback threads, he could suggest changes in a constructive, interesting and self-explanatory way. Even if he was on the team, there wouldn't be much more for him to do as the changes would still have to be implemented by the modders.

Your condensing, degradative tone is not necessary at all. Not that it would affect anyone or reduce his chance of joining the team, but people like you have made some members to flee the forums and stop posting.


Truth is, he probably doesn't want to work with this team, because there would be no opposition from relic if he wanted to.

Imperial Dane has regular "state of the balance" casts and usually he is spot on.

He´s one of the few active members who agrees that the Panther is lackluster. When I hear others here suggesting making the Panther a glass cannon (which makes as much sense as a flying IS-2) or not touching it at all, I have little hope for any patch.

Also with 1200+ games casted alone, he probably has more insight than most. So I would definitely consider him.

Dude, Machine is a caster in the first place too.

Keep that in mind when you are talking about Dane.

True.

Dane is another miragefla that will only buff Ost. end of discussion.

True, ostheer has been an OP faction since the last patch.

We don't need more people on the team, we just need more people actually playing, giving us rational and non biased feedback and posting replays to support their claims. To help out us here, there will be tournaments down the line.

Most of the feedback is just noise making it difficult to get sensible feedback, especially since there's only a handful of replays posted so far.

This is the point at which EVERYONE is part of the process. You want to have an influence on how the patch goes and what it does? okay this is what you do:

PLAY THE PATCH

upload the replays

Give logical feedback to issues you believe to be the results of the changes.

Also remember that we can only change things withing the 'scope' of the patch. These are things the whole community voted on. Remember all that hype about people voting on the shit they thought was most affecting the game? Well that defined the scope of the patch, there directly you and everyone else who voted decided on the changes.

And ladies an gentlemen, this is when dictatorial instincts and tendencies start to grow and delude the individual. "we don't want anyone else besides ourselves" etc.

@Machine, if that is how you really evaluate the feedback from average players or frustrated/shocked fans, then you are not gong to succeed in utilizing the overall feedback you receive. Respect isn't a bad thing either, generally speaking.

And ladies an gentlemen, this is when dictatorial instincts and tendencies start to grow and delude the individual. "we don't want anyone else besides ourselves" etc.

@Machine, if that is how you really evaluate the feedback from average players or frustrated/shocked fans, then you are not gong to succeed in utilizing the overall feedback you receive. Respect isn't a bad thing either, generally speaking.

How am i being dictatorial? I am inviting you to join the balance development process? Are you deliberately misunderstanding me?

I don't agree with anyone here being the any sort community balance.

why i say this is because everyone has their biases. A good player has biases a bad player has biases.

And so people will impliment their biased opinions into balance. Not only that how do you consider helping balance the game when everyone is so biased.


You can't balance a game from the communities suggestions because you'd not have much a game anymore, but a slog of random shit that doesn't do anything.

I don't agree with anyone here being the any sort community balance.

why i say this is because everyone has their biases. A good player has biases a bad player has biases.

And so people will impliment their biased opinions into balance. Not only that how do you consider helping balance the game when everyone is so biased.


You can't balance a game from the communities suggestions because you'd not have much a game anymore, but a slog of random shit that doesn't do anything.

So developers are unbiased? Are they not people? Do they not have opinions themselves about where the game should go and how to balance it? Maybe they would be unbiased if they didn't play the game... oh wait but then how would they know what to do? From community feed back? Oh but we are all biased.... please tell me how to remove bias coz that information literally solve 80% the worlds problems.

well, I'd like to be in balance team or whatever you call that, but not as a mod tools user but as a advisor maybe?

Just let Luvnest, HelpingHans and Shadowwada do 2 patch and 1 hotfix, game is ready to rest It's eternal sleep.

Ehm not?

Because then we have only 1vs1 patches... great....

Lol, dont want to be a dick but
Am i allowed to laugh?

I dont agree at all with all names except cruzz ^^

Not a single mapper in the list either. I'm sure we have no feedback on abuse people don't even notice, or game engine issues.

I don't agree with anyone here being the any sort community balance.

why i say this is because everyone has their biases. A good player has biases a bad player has biases.

And so people will impliment their biased opinions into balance. Not only that how do you consider helping balance the game when everyone is so biased.


You can't balance a game from the communities suggestions because you'd not have much a game anymore, but a slog of random shit that doesn't do anything.

THIS

Honestly, I feel like it would be a lot better if the changes were more transparent. AKA

Next to the old changes, for comparison, instead its just... here is what we changed, with no info on what it changed from but our memory.

This will also help things, in a more general view. Right now everything that's a nerf is read as super drastic, because we don't know the individual numbers (i was guilty of this as well).

I would just really like to see everything side by side as it progresses, as it would help my understanding of things across the board for changes that directly effect one faction, but dynamically affect another.

@budwise

it is a great shame that it did not work out when coh2 was new. but your allegation and implication that this patch wont be any different than usual relic patches, which some of them were darn good, is bonkers. miragefla and the machine both play the game to quite high rank and both cast so they observe, too. also having preview mod by the community members who are VERY active on the forum is something new.

it is damn shame and almost puzzling that relic did not do this prior to WPC, then the top players wouldve been more willing to participate.

also this baseless accusations of the three modders using "not in the scope" to dismiss differing views are down right laughable. also vast number of ppl thinking they are more unbiased and think they know better ppl for the balance is just wow. instead of trying put forth an argument via constructive arguments or vids, they are bitching and moaning.

i wondered why relic kept this hush hush but now i know why.