move stug to tier 2.5?

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 07:27 AMMr.Smith

The more straightforward to remove the necessity for the Stug is to do what VindicareX indicated.

Moving Stug to 2.5 could be an option only if Ostheer is no longer allowed to skip tiers anymore.

Otherwise, everyone is going to trivially skip T3 and rush T4 for their Brumbarrs:
- The Stug is the star-unit of T3; that's literally the only reason why you want to have T3 up in the end-game (P4? Ostwind? lol)
- The Brumbarr is the star-unit of T4. I don't need to explain to anyone what it does.

Speaking of which, it is now, incidentally, a lot easier to skip tiers as Ostheer.

Before the patch, if you had BP2 researched it used to take:
- 75 fuel to get T3 up
- 150 fuel to get T4 up, if you skipped T3

With the new patch (which reduced the price of the BP upgrades, instead of the buildings themselves), it takes:
- 75 fuel to get T3 up
- 120 fuel to get T4 up if you skip T3

Which means that, currently, it is entirely possible to do this. However, with the current system, skipping T3 means you are going to lose access to Stugs. (and it's not easy to spam Panthers AND Brumbars)

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 07:46 AMFiresparks

it's 120 fuel after getting t3 (bp2), that's more than enough for all three allied faction to access their tank destroyer and including the brummbar price, get their tank destroyer.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 07:39 AMStug life

you see the problem of a tier if 1 vehicle is moved out and it become useless lol

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 07:56 AMMr.Smith

Yeah, but what about side-grades?

Isn't it supposed to be that OST doesn't have to pay to get access to side benefits (nades, fausts, weapon upgrades) in the early game, but they have to pay for higher teching costs to get to the late-game? Wouldn't that sort of change sabotage this arrangement?

(Unless, of course, you are trying to make OST on-par with 81mm mortar USF. In that case, go for it)

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 08:03 AMFiresparks

package deals vs individual items. It's classic pricing tactic for package deal to be cheaper in total since you're buying in bulk. The t2 research is basically the lmg and grenade upgrade for the wehr. The okw's healing truck also pay on this.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 05:06 AMTheMachine

Just nerf light vehicles so Shreks and Paks actually work.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 04:16 AMFiresparks

LT (280 mp 25 fuel): m20 (skirt locked), 50cal, 57mm, pack howitzer

captain: stuart, m17 AAHT, m20 armor skirt

remove mortar

the USF can get their support weapon relatively early through the LT with m20 support and either get the captain or skip it entirely.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 11:11 AMHighfiveeeee

This is it.
In addition to the mortar which makes German support troops useless on its own, T70 is way to strong. Almost every shot is a model kill, its extremely fast and can survive 3 pak shots with self repair.

If the enemy is not totally stupid and gets fausted or drives over a tellermine, there is nothing Germans can do to get that thing while it keeps harrassing everywhere.

Germans in theory have great counters with the Raketenwerfer and especially the PaK40. But they miss so many shots and their aim time is way too slow.

PaKs imo need a buff, lower their aim time, a little bit for all Paks and a huge bit more for the Raketenwerfer.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 11:14 AMMr.Smith

Another idea could be to give the 2.5 Stug a debuff, for as long as the T3 is not up:
- Make the TWP ability unavailable
- Reduce Stug damage from 160 to 120 (same as SU-76 / Puma / AEC) (maybe penetration too?)

The debuff will go away the moment the OST player actually builds the T3.

The idea is that, although OST does need an anti-light vehicle counter to anti-cheese itself from the 222, the Stug is a god, and it shouldn't be handed down so easily.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 11:48 AMFiresparks

ironically the USF is the faction best equipped at facing light vehicle with only infantry and support weapons. Bazooka, 57mm and the rifle at nade are all technically inferior to the wehr counter part, but is yet more practical in general. (having a 5 men squad helps as well)

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 11:39 AMFul4n0

noob here, i like your suggestions, but one question arise in my mind after reading this....how is USF supposed to counter OST LV then??? if you delay Stuart, OST players are going to rush 222 or 444 and then, what should do USF Player???

I mean, if pak mines and shreks are not enough for OST to counter STUART, how should USF player in your opinion counter 222 or 444 with no mines, 57mm, and maybe one zook from m20 crew????

noob here, just asking....

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 00:42 AMUlfrik_Stormcloak

Add Panzer III.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 02:19 AMaaa

OH dont pay anything for their unit unlock aleready. Move 222 and 251 to tier 2.5.

To hardcounter t70 OH need 1 222 and 1 mg.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 03:27 AMVindicareX

Or, nerf units that are clearly over performing rather than messing with units that don't need messing.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 18:32 PMstrafniki

watch out, allied fanboy has spoken TriHard

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 03:27 AMVindicareX

Or, nerf units that are clearly over performing rather than messing with units that don't need messing.

Jump back to quoted post24 Aug 2016, 21:26 PMTheGentlemenTroll

Now dare you say such logic