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russian armor

Let's Talk: ISG Performance

19 Jul 2016, 07:12 AM
#21
avatar of Brassatko

Posts: 175

Hello,


if u nerf the range from ISG....how should the german fraction deal with sim city builders?

A nerf to the range means a big buff to the british forces.


I testet it...one morta emplacement can be faster repair than two ISG would do dmg.
it takes 7minutes (!) to kill one emplacment with 2 ISG only repaired by the british repair house.

while this 7min..the mortar emplacment do much dmg vs the ISG..i need 450 manpower to heal the ISG. That´s to much.

if u nerf the range....


Not sure if Sim City should even be hard countered by just isg damage alone, once they also have the assembly and upgrades that is plenty of MP invested in it, no? But with the ability to smoke off the protecting elements one might be able to attack it with other units as well.
Kri
19 Jul 2016, 07:14 AM
#22
avatar of Kri

Posts: 60

I've played two games of 2vs2 on Hamlet last week where my opponent had double ISG around his med truck. Tried to attack them with double IS twice but he just reinforced faster than I could kill models. By the time I had something more to attack them, he had his schwerer up around it. At that point it felt like they were overperforming and a pain to deal with. The rest he did was blob panzerfusiliers and A-move. Later he spammed 3 Jagdpanzers. I had no idea how to counter that. I know im getting off-topic but I had no idea how to counter it and still dont.
19 Jul 2016, 07:29 AM
#23
avatar of Jespe

Posts: 190

Not sure if Sim City should even be hard countered by just isg damage alone, once they also have the assembly and upgrades that is plenty of MP invested in it, no?


So it would be Ok to autorepair Kingtiger by some sort of deployable halftrack so that 17pdr could not kill it until it fired it for about 7 minutes? Cause OKW Invested huge amount manpower and fuel for it?


But with the ability to smoke off the protecting elements one might be able to attack it with other units as well.


Brits can just blast everything with attackground and bofors suppression when smoked...
19 Jul 2016, 07:49 AM
#24
avatar of Brassatko

Posts: 175

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2016, 07:29 AMJespe


So it would be Ok to autorepair Kingtiger by some sort of deployable halftrack so that 17pdr could not kill it until it fired it for about 7 minutes? Cause OKW Invested huge amount manpower and fuel for it?



Brits can just blast everything with attackground and bofors suppression when smoked...


Ya, guess you have a point there. I don't really know how it is, I never played that advanced emplacement commander myself but think the whole thing with bofors, mortar pit, assembly point and upgrades is a huge investment, no? In 1v1s I either manage to knock it out with ISG + raketen + infantry in the early stages, before the assembly point is in place or else I try to grab the rest of the map and get out tanks quicker than the opponent. They will not have map presence AND all that stuff early. You also have LeiFH now with Fortification Doctrine to bombard it from really far. It sure does enough damage to force brace on the Bofors, then attack the other bits with what else you have and the next barrage is ready when brace is still recharging.
19 Jul 2016, 08:04 AM
#25
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Just 2 days ago I watched Luvnet vs Zarok. Luv went for 2 ISGs to counter maxims, and Zarok for 2 120s to counter ISGs. Guess who won? ISGs or 120s? 120s had no chance.

Let's keep in mind that ISG is really, really accurate and it bases damage not on AoE but on accuracy.
19 Jul 2016, 08:11 AM
#26
avatar of slother

Posts: 145

@miragefla Just give it smoke, leave rest. What You should look at is flak halftruck. Coz everytime u field it 30seconds later AEC/Stuart shows up.

Make Medical truck great again :romeoMug:
19 Jul 2016, 08:12 AM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Why aren't scatter values being mentioned?
These are THE primary stat of indirect fire weapon defining their effectiveness more then anything else.

As far as I've seen, ISG still uses heat seeking shells. You can't have indirect fire piece with good AoE and close to perfect accuracy.
19 Jul 2016, 08:17 AM
#28
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2016, 08:12 AMKatitof
Why aren't scatter values being mentioned?
These are THE primary stat of indirect fire weapon defining their effectiveness more then anything else.


And still it sucks.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2016, 08:12 AMKatitof

As far as I've seen, ISG still uses heat seeking shells. You can't have indirect fire piece with good AoE and close to perfect accuracy.


Meanwhile the perfectly balanced, and as of latest fixed and behaving as intended USF mortar.
19 Jul 2016, 08:20 AM
#29
avatar of Brassatko

Posts: 175

Just 2 days ago I watched Luvnet vs Zarok. Luv went for 2 ISGs to counter maxims, and Zarok for 2 120s to counter ISGs. Guess who won? ISGs or 120s? 120s had no chance.

Let's keep in mind that ISG is really, really accurate and it bases damage not on AoE but on accuracy.


I'd like to see that replay. Maybe there is ab bit more to it than just ISGs hammering the poor 120s and maxims into the ground? So in fact the ISG is so strong it needs to be nerfed quite a bit in your opinion?
19 Jul 2016, 08:21 AM
#30
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



I'd like to see that replay. Maybe there is ab bit more to it than just ISGs hammering the poor 120s and maxims into the ground? So in fact the ISG is so strong it needs to be nerfed quite a bit in your opinion?


Where did I say that it needs a nerf? I said it's fine.
Look for it in recent Dane's replays.
19 Jul 2016, 08:24 AM
#31
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353

It mean is fine expect fight 1000 HP pool Bofos ?
19 Jul 2016, 08:26 AM
#32
avatar of SolidSteel

Posts: 74

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2016, 08:17 AMDomine


And still it sucks.



Meanwhile the perfectly balanced, and as of latest fixed and behaving as intended USF mortar.


This,

It comes a quite the cost, not that early, and while its pretty accurate, the extremely low AOE just makes it irrelevant at actually doing damage.


2 Of the will fk emplacements pretty good, combo it with a owl, and bleed those camping brits to death. No one seems to have noticed that the reload buletin gives 25% reload kek, perma fast barrages WILL fuk a camping brit i n da ass real hard.

Outside of that, its pretty damn useless tho, a simple AOE buff would actually make it work vs weapon teams, maybe give it bonus vs garrisons, and you got a prefectly functional unit.
19 Jul 2016, 08:28 AM
#33
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

I don´t know, if we buff it, then it may get too poverful because righ now 2 isg with battllegruppe and flakHQ can fire in most parts of map and still are almost invunurable if you don´t screw it up.

Only think I would agree with would be bigger damage to ambitiont building (look at pack howie for example) and bigger damage to emplacements.

Otherwise I think they are fine and we don´t need isg slugfest 2.0 (don´t risk with AOE)
19 Jul 2016, 08:31 AM
#34
avatar of Jespe

Posts: 190

1v1s I either manage to knock it out with ISG + raketen + infantry in the early stages, before the assembly point is in place or else I try to grab the rest of the map and get out tanks quicker than the opponent. They will not have map presence AND all that stuff early.


Well the problem for me is small maps where grapping the rest of the map means that at one point 1 Vickers surprises me and I press "T" then I Yell at my screen like that mad german kid, keel over on the side and cry like a baby because all my infantry just ran trought the British no-go-zone dying.

This convesation seems to move from ISG to britt Fortification doctrine (OP or not...)
Never used that doctrine myself either but have been shot by isg when playing brits and for some targets that are big there aren't even a danger that it would hurt sappers repairing the target. or if there is risk i could just walk Infantry section to heal sappers.
19 Jul 2016, 08:32 AM
#35
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

I don´t know, if we buff it,


u didn't read all

It would have autofire range 80 as mortar.
19 Jul 2016, 08:40 AM
#36
avatar of Jespe

Posts: 190



u didn't read all

It would have autofire range 80 as mortar.


This would make me want button "DON'T MOVE" next to "DON'T FIRE" button...
19 Jul 2016, 09:01 AM
#37
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

i like curreny isg. rarely found it useless in gamemodes i play. its range makes it unique. maybe smoke can be added.
19 Jul 2016, 09:03 AM
#38
avatar of Carlos Danger

Posts: 362

Performance against units in buildings could be improved and it could get better veterancy bonuses. Don't want to see an AoE or damage buff because I don't want it to start doing freak squad wipes like the Pack Howitzer.

Battlegroup HQ is weak right now and needs buffs imo. The Flak Halftrack is pretty terrible and the IR Halftrack is a strange niche unit.

19 Jul 2016, 09:50 AM
#39
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



u didn't read all

It would have autofire range 80 as mortar.


my bad misread something
19 Jul 2016, 10:01 AM
#40
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

The ISG is going to look bad if you're comparing it with the mortar emplacement and the USF GOD mortar.

How about nerfing those super mortar before trying to buff the axis artillery? don't escalate the game into arty fest.

The ISG used to be god when they suppress on hit. It's been an okay unit unit since the last changes.


ISG have a slow rate of fire outside of barrage,


http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=le_ig_18_howitzer_75mm_mp
http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=grw34_81mm_mortar_mp

the Leig have a total reload time of 8.8 seconds
the wehr mortar have a total reload time of 8.3 seconds.

it's a difference of .5 seconds. The Leig only look slow compared to the USF turbo mortar. There's also the matter of Firing arc as well. The Leig have a much faster time to target due to its low firing arc. It's one of the reason why the suppression ability was so powerful.
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