su-85 needs high pop cost

since now that the su-85 should be 14 pop since it got the buff. It's now on the level of the jpz4, jackson, and firefly and should have the pop cost to reflect that.

The buff was well deserved. What's more, it wasn't even a plain buff, in fact the su-85 is now significantly worse against medium armour, due to lower RoF. It's also worth mentioning that it has the highest teching cost of all allied TDs and has no turret, making its window of opportunity pretty short, as JT and Ele hardcounter it really bad.

accuracy is important. the slight decrease in rof is more than compensated by the massive increase in accuracy.

The buff was exclusively vs heavy tanks.
Vs mediums it was 50% performance nerf.
And it already got cost increase for that.

I don't see any reason to nerf it in any way.

Someone could say that it was a nerf, not a buff..

Jackson and FF have 200damage (FF has 200, right?) + turret.
JPIV has armor and bonus HP and camo.
SU85 has only sight but that's hardly bonus since JP with vet 2 also has it without any penalties

Su85 fine as it is.

Someone could say that it was a nerf, not a buff..

Jackson and FF have 200damage (FF has 200, right?) + turret.
JPIV has armor and bonus HP and camo.
SU85 has only sight but that's hardly bonus since JP with vet 2 also has it without any penalties

Ff is 160 at vet 3 240

Ff is 160 at vet 3 240

That's why I asked.

Nevertheless it has turret, tullips.

Su85 fine as it is.

Agree, except for the lack of su100 mod/skin.

Ff is 160 at vet 3 240

No, it has 200 Damage at vet 0. Stop talking out of your ass, you can check in literally 10 seconds.

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=sherman_firefly_76mm_mp

No, it has 200 Damage at vet 0. Stop talking out of your ass, you can check in literally 10 seconds.

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=sherman_firefly_76mm_mp

so 280 at vet 3 wow

The buff was exclusively vs heavy tanks.
Vs mediums it was 50% performance nerf.
And it already got cost increase for that.

I don't see any reason to nerf it in any way.

the su-85 got a huge boost in accuracy. .40 accuracy at far range is huge. it's a 88% chance to hit a panzer4 at far range.

and the su-85 also got a buff in terms of rotational rate and target size as well. the total sum of its buff outweight the nerf to rof.

Someone could say that it was a nerf, not a buff..

Jackson and FF have 200damage (FF has 200, right?) + turret.
JPIV has armor and bonus HP and camo.
SU85 has only sight but that's hardly bonus since JP with vet 2 also has it without any penalties

first of all, jackson, FF, and su-85 all cost more population and/or are more expensive to begin with.

the su-85 also have more penetration than any of those tank destroyer. It basically combined the best trait of all those td into one package. The su-85 have better survivability than the firefly and jackson. Faster than the firefly and jpz4. More penetration than any tech unit in the game. Same accuracy as the jpz4. The focus sight is also an ability the su-85 get by default.

The su-85 is at least as good as the TD in the other tree. It should cost the same population.

the su-85 got a huge boost in accuracy. .40 accuracy at far range is huge.

and the su-85 also got a buff in terms of rotational rate and target size as well. the total sum of its buff outweight the nerf to rof.

That's still a huge nerf in DPS vs meds even if you consider that.
Rotation and target size do nothing about tank that isn't directly in front of you.

All units should cost an equal amount of popcap according to the level they perform. Otherwise it's completely unfair, and for no reason.

Unfortunately, the game handles popcap in a completely slopy manner. If you aren't convinced, consider the following examples:
- Pre-nerf Panzerwerfer vs Katyusha (both costing 12 popcap)
- OKW P4 vs Valentine (both cost 12 popcap currently; both need to change in opposite directions)
- Anvil Churchill (18 pop) vs other Churchills (also 18 pop) or Tiger (19 pop)
- Stug (8 popcap) vs Puma or AEC (8 popcap)

IMO, SU-85 performs on about the same level as the Firefly, and, perhaps even the JP4. Thus, it merits a 14 popcap.

(USF effectively has no popcap limit)

That's still a huge nerf in DPS vs meds even if you consider that.
Rotation and target size do nothing about tank that isn't directly in front of you.

Except rotation speed make it easier to bring target to the front and keep it there. It also help when enemy try to circle strafe you.

target size is something that's always active. It allow the su-85 to dodge shot regardless of where the shot comes from.

Someone could say that it was a nerf, not a buff..

Jackson and FF have 200damage (FF has 200, right?) + turret.
JPIV has armor and bonus HP and camo.
SU85 has only sight but that's hardly bonus since JP with vet 2 also has it without any penalties

first of all, jackson, FF, and su-85 all cost more population and/or are more expensive to begin with.

the su-85 also have more penetration than any of those tank destroyer. It basically combined the best trait of all those td into one package. The su-85 have better survivability than the firefly and jackson. Faster than the firefly and jpz4. More penetration than any tech unit in the game. Same accuracy as the jpz4. The focus sight is also an ability the su-85 get by default.

The su-85 is at least as good as the TD in the other tree. It should cost the same population.

meh, su85 has its drawbacks- i know i would much sooner be able to increase my damage or disappear in the middle of a fight with vet than track infantry with my TD
or the ability to snare my own prey with some munitions (ff with tulips)
or negate my pop entirely and self heal (jackson)
or at max vet be able to 2 shot medium armour (jp4 from camo)
it has high pen and accuracy, thats hardly "combined the best trait of all those td into one package"
i cant fight the enemy AND pathing at the same time
i cant peek shot down roads perpendicular to my chasis
i CAN scout, at the cost of speed and rotation (i dont think this ability should be on the unit, but there it is anyways)

you re greatly overplaying the su85's power.
its a TD specialized in fighting heavy armour and it does not excel in any other scenario
the su76 is a much better and cost effective choice for fighting medium armour play at nearly half the price
as has been said, the su85 is less effective vs mediums making the it along the panther as far as reliability vs dps ratio goes

the pop of the su85 are fine because its not multi purpose,it does one thing. it does it well

then all heavies should have adequte cap too. Not 19 but old 25 for tiger and 30 kt

I dont agree with you firesparks . the su85 didnt get buffed its role got changed from a medium tank hunter to a heavy tank hunter. its buffed penetration is very useful against heavies but the nerf to rof makes it less suitable against medium tanks. in fact a su85 vs a stug and their is a good chance the stug will win if the they are at 50 range when the fight begins

Afaik 12 is fine considering it's a pretty specialized unit. StuG-III should be 10 population plus get a health buff from 560 to 640 imo.

Jagdpanzer IV could also drop from 14 to 12. Again, feels appropriate considering I think its value is pretty comparable to Panzer IV.

Afaik 12 is fine considering it's a pretty specialized unit. StuG-III should be 10 population plus get a health buff from 560 to 640 imo.

Jagdpanzer IV could also drop from 14 to 12. Again, fee

ls appropriate considering I think its value is pretty comparable to Panzer IV.

jackson, firefly, and the jagdpanzer are all 14 pop. If you're going to lower the pop on the jagdpanzer4 you need to lower the pop on the jackson and firefly as well.

I dont agree with you firesparks . the su85 didnt get buffed its role got changed from a medium tank hunter to a heavy tank hunter. its buffed penetration is very useful against heavies but the nerf to rof makes it less suitable against medium tanks. in fact a su85 vs a stug and their is a good chance the stug will win if the they are at 50 range when the fight begins

the su-85 is still awesome against medium tanks.

Infact, the penetration buff on the su-85 give it 100% penetration against the OKW panzer 4. The drastic increased in accuracy also affect its effectiveness against pretty much everything.

old su-85 have 55% accuracy against panzer. The new su-85 have 88% accuracy against panzer4, that's a huge difference. The su-85 can also chase down fleeing tanks more easily, since its accuracy is still 44% on the movie.

The boost in maneuverability for the su-85 also make it hard to flanker as well.

and the su-85 out range the stug to begin with, with a focus sight ability as well.