Maxim HMG - Unreasonably overnerfed

Maxim is nerfed and cant perform their spammable role like before, but useless? Not likely

Soviet is still strong, not as good as op-as-hell USF or sitting-duck-can-win UKF but still better than Axis, that's the spirit.

So why bother, just find another tactic
OKW has to deal with I-don't-wanna-build-it-even-if-it-were-free Flak Emplacement since release

what exactly is the problem with the maxim? its DPS and suppression are both on par with the mg42. Its limited arc is more than compensated by having a 6 men squad and a fast set up and tear down.

the maxim squad is as very bit as good as the mg42 squad. it's priced appropriately.

what exactly is the problem with the maxim? its DPS and suppression are both on par with the mg42. Its limited arc is more than compensated by having a 6 men squad and a fast set up and tear down.

the maxim squad is as very bit as good as the mg42 squad. it's priced appropriately.

Yea, but problem is - 6 men squad is not such powerful boost, for to compensate very limited arc of fire and small areal supression. And fast setup is a myth - it takes sometimes even bigger time for setup that MG, because of strange working animations.

6 men squad may be good boost for infantry squads, but not for support weapons. Maxim dying as good (and even better) as all other HMG teams, because artillery wipes 6 men squads same good as 4 men (they all prefer to bunch up nearby and dying easy), and each model itself in squad has bigger than common recived accuracy stat, so - they also dying fast from direct fire.

Maxim is not good, it's definitely not as good as MG-42, because again - MG-42 was never subject of spam in CoH 2, because it peforms well itself and can be changed to bunker MG. But Maximspam was real, and some people say, it's still real. Why? Because 1 Maxim can't effectively perform, it's bad designed. So you need to call more, for to make it do it's job well - hold and control enemy infantry squads.

Isn't that sign of problem, that for to make unit work good you just have to spam it?

6 men squad may be good boost for infantry squads, but not for support weapons. Maxim dying as good (and even better) as all other HMG teams, because artillery wipes 6 men squads same good as 4 men (they all prefer to bunch up nearby and dying easy),and each model itself in squad has bigger than common recived accuracy stat, so - they also dying fast from direct fire.

No it doesn't, the mgs all have identical received accuracy at 1.25. Stop spreading lies.

I feel that the MG does a good role at support Soviet infantry and can be moved with advancing Soviet infantry to support them in aggressive attacks

Theyre not as good at denying areas and suppressing spread out units as other MGs but they make up for it with being a more "aggressive MG" and if you would like an even better one you can get the Dshk

6 men squad may be good boost for infantry squads, but not for support weapons. Maxim dying as good (and even better) as all other HMG teams, because artillery wipes 6 men squads same good as 4 men (they all prefer to bunch up nearby and dying easy), and each model itself in squad has bigger than common recived accuracy stat, so - they also dying fast from direct fire.

ALL MGs have the exact identical recieved accuracy of 1.25.

You are, and always will be completely wrong on the topic that a larger MG support weapon squad size is worse than a smaller one. I lost count on how many times you have been told this this in-game, in the shout-box and in the forum. Get over it, and please do stop repeating that statement to get some traction, it really confuses the passing-by readers.

Yea, but problem is - 6 men squad is not such powerful boost, for to compensate very limited arc of fire and small areal supression. And fast setup is a myth - it takes sometimes even bigger time for setup that MG, because of strange working animations.

1. 6-men squad means that they survice always now when retreating as targeting won't target the carrier anymore

2. Grens, and pgrens spotting for them self the moment they see maxim and start to move towards it means that if SOV player spots them in a same moment maxim has a chance to turn around and shoot that flanking unit

3. Its hard to micro MGs but at least Maxim suppresses targets in time opposite to mg34 where you can some times just walk trought its arc.

Bonus: I think we should nerf the maxim because historically ruskies used cloth ammobelts opposite to metallic in their machine guns making them jam easier on the move so how about 50/50 chance it should start reload animation after redeployedment (AAAaand waiting for the hate 1-2-3-4-5-....)

The nerf to set up and build time was warranted, the only thing I would do is reduce cost to 240 or 250 mp.

Maxim is only MG that can act as line infantry squad with its short deploy time, 6 men and sprint ability.
Buffing it will bring back the cancer 6-7 maxim builds, no thanks

More like Maxim can only be used as line inf squad, use it as MG42 is just not viable due to its crap arc and meh suppression.

Maxim was indirectly buffed with grenade range reduction in suppressed state.

This, rifle and flame grenades was biggest enemy of maxim.

This, rifle and flame grenades was biggest enemy of maxim.

Well, in fact HMG and core infantry of Wehrmacht and Soviets were balanced with each other IMO.

Grens has long range riflenade.
Cons has short range molotov, but also Oorah and MG42 had slow traverse speed.

Riflenade has burst damage, but faces 6 man squads and Maxim has quick pack-up time.
Molotov has damage over time effect, but MG42 has slow pack-up time and only 4 man.

Same thing with their HP pools and long-range DPS of opposing basic infantry rifles.


But then WFA came out with their fucked up sets of tools: no early garrison answers, no early indirect, no smoke for OKW, too much smoke for USF but behind fuel tech.

And all of sudden if you face OKW as Soviets you had to go T2 Maxim spam or GTFO. But OKW had no chances against flawless maxim spam, especially if Soviets managed to take garrison key buildings.

Then they've started to plug holes in faction design: volks flame nade, OKW stock HMG, usf mortar etc.

But now with grenade range nerf and maxim direct nerf things looks balanced to me.

Penal buff was trick, Penals still suck. Whoever use Penals, getting affected with that trick - losing more often, cos it's so easy to counter Penals with one single MG-42... Or bunch of bunkers. Or few 222s... T1 sucks.

Ah man you cannot be serious, Penals are literally one of the best inf squads in the entire game now!? In fact at vet 3 they are OP due to RA bonus.

Maxim is perfectly fine, fast setup time, 6-man squad with insta pin what more do you want?

And FYI all MGs have the same RA..........so no try again

Ah man you cannot be serious, Penals are literally one of the best inf squads in the entire game now!? In fact at vet 3 they are OP due to RA bonus.

That's not true. They lack dps in long range and are forced to close in. Combined with their mediocore received accuracy they tend to lose many models before being in effective range.

can't be that bad, people still tend to get 2.

Maxims just got a triple buff:

-Deathloop fixed
-Buildtime nerf negated by spamming out of building
-33% nade range while supressed

No the maxim doesnt need a buff.

Maxims just got a triple buff:

-Deathloop fixed
-Buildtime nerf negated by spamming out of building
-33% nade range while supressed

No the maxim doesnt need a buff.

Makes a good point, the Maxim doesn't have to worry about rifle grenades insta-wiping the entire gun crew.

Make Maixm spam great agian!

Such as all HMGs then. It doesn't make Maxim really better.



Cos maxim spam is still only effective option for early game. Penal buff was trick, Penals still suck. Whoever use Penals, getting affected with that trick - losing more often, cos it's so easy to counter Penals with one single MG-42... Or bunch of bunkers. Or few 222s... T1 sucks.

Well, setup time was nerfed, that was painful. Such as unreasonably increased price and building time.

penal are litteraly the best inf right now they beat green at long range and with the last man they can almost beat lmg 42 gren this without flame thrower
Can one shoot bunker for 45 mun and with orrha can flank mg and flame them out of building with flame thrower

Makes a good point, the Maxim doesn't have to worry about rifle grenades insta-wiping the entire gun crew.

Such as all other HMGs. Again - that grenade range nerf affected ALL factions, not only those, which fight specificaly against USSR. So, it made Maxim less dangerous to use, surely, such as all other HMGs, that's not uniqe and doesn't make Maxim better, compared with all other HMGs.

And I'm not sure, that people really understand what I mean, when I say, that "Maxim sux".

Survivability is not an issue in that discussion, it's irrelevant for support weapons (for all of them), cos they are not units, which suppoused to "tank" and take damage - you usually use your core infantry for that or other combat units. And be sure - 4 or 6 men is not such big difference for artillery, mortars or other counters of support weapons, cos 2 additional men dying pretty fast. In fact (from my few year experience) - when you soviet *weaponteamname* crew becomes lesser than 4 - you must move it back for to reinforce. Otherwise - it will be wiped with 70-80% chanses by sudden indirect/grenade or will be wiped on retreat. For other factions teamcrews it's usualy "lesser than 3" rule, cos they somehow are more "survivable"...

In general my idea - more men doesn't equial to more survivable. It may work so for line infantry, but doesn't work with support weapons. 6 men Maxim dies under Stuka or PzWerfer barrage same instantly, as MG-42 under Calliope or Mattress.

And I don't really want Maxim spam to be in CoH 2, but... it's absolutely ONLY way to use it effectively, I don't understand how don't you see that! It designed so, that you MUST spam it for to use as effective crowd & territory control tool, since arc of fire is incredibly small and it doesn't supress infantry in big area, so you need more HMGs for to control flankers.

Fast setup time (which is not fast at all, with all animation bugs and such stuff), "high survivability"... All of those things CANNOT compensate absence of those parametrs, which HMG really needs - wide arc of fire (for more effective territory control) and big areal supression (for to control blobs and infantry in general more effectively by supression).

And I said in OP - idea of "making Maxim" more spammable is idea, which comes from original design of that unit. It absolutely designed to be spammed, cos USSR have no alternative for infantry crowd control (M5AA can't be called that alternative for real) and Maxim itself is absolutely ineffective in that role, cos Relic removed essential for HMG stats from that unit and gave others, which are ABSOLUTELY irrelevant - survivability, speed, whatever else. So, for to make that unit be effective - people spam it. Not because "it is OP" - because you HAVE to spam it, otherwise - it won't perform effective.

So, problem of "Maxim" must be solved, actually, not by making it spammable or other kinds of buffing that unit. Maxim needs total redesign, idea of "offensive support weapons" is ridiculous, it doesn't work right. Maybe people found, how to use it with profit, but it still leaves you without any deffensive crowd control platform, which is very needed for all factions.

Maxim must be same defesnive HMG, as all others. And it won't hurt God blessed "assymetrical balance", cos Vikkers (which designed in general like MG-42/34) didn't hurt it. And in vCoH all HMGs were defensive - nobody cried about it, everything worked well. Maxim MUST have way wider arc of fire, bigger areal supression. Of course for that it will have bigger setup time, maybe lesser survivability, but again - all of those "side-bonuses" are not that important, as those, which making unit do it original job well!

Or... maxim should be saved as that "offensive HMG", if Relic and community like that so much, but USSR must have (cheap) defensive alternative HMG, like USF have fireing positions or Ostheer have bunkers, which can replace expensive MG-42s at all stages of game. You just can't play without it - it makes you really vunerable to enemy infantry attacks, makes map control way harder or even totally impossible for you, cos right now for to effectively keep map under control you... must spam Maxims, cos you have absolutely no alternative, and you have to spend 260 MP + 6 (if I remember right) popcap, each time when you need to protect 1 point from infantry invasions (protect very ineffectively, since no areal supression). For same purpouses Ostheer/USF may dig MP-cheap position, equip with ammo costed HMG and don't spend popcap at all! Defensive gameplay of all other factions is not only more effective, it's also way cheaper! Is it normal for faction, whcih offensive gameplay is also not "top of the line"? Nope!

So - we either redesign Maxim for to make it defensive as all HMGs (DsHK may still be same offensive, it would add some diversity), or making for USSR defensive alternative - bunkers, new defensive stock HMG, whatever else... What we have today in USSR for to purpouses of crowd control is absolutely ineffective, it doesn't work right and doesn't do job... even bad. It must be fixed.