Look to the new Chart. Germans were slaughtered.

Another thread derailed by the forum trolls...

The exploitable combined arms bug and broken mortar are obviously going to inflate USF winrates for those that exploit it as well as lower axis winrates across the board.

Hopefully we get a small balance patch to deal with the mortar now, so we can get a good idea of what actual balance should look like, if they didn't totally screw everything up at the last second.

Kat onestly what's your opinion of this game right now ? No derailing

Tanks and Brumbar vs Bofors and Mortars.

PzGrens and flame Pios vs AT gun emp.

PanzerWerfer vs all.


Try watch replays some experienced players and learn this game. Noobs have difficult start, but after some time, you learn the mechanics of the game.

That condescending attitude of yours... I´m ranked somewhere in the top 30s with every faction. For some time I was Nr. 1 Ostheer 2vs2. So please spare me with your ill adviced suggestions.

Tanks and Brummbär appear too late to efficiently defeat emplacements. By the time they hit the field, the map has been locked for 20 minutes. And I´m pretty confident you know that. The only unit that can save you is the mortar halftrack and going for that 24/7 is boring. A boring game is not a good game.

Additionaly we have no relevant German lategame now that could reward the Axis player for staying in the game after having to face emplacement domination earlier.

That condescending attitude of yours... I´m ranked somewhere in the top 30s with every faction. For some time I was Nr. 1 Ostheer 2vs2. So please spare me with your ill adviced suggestions.

Tanks and Brummbär appear too late to efficiently defeat emplacements. By the time they hit the field, the map has been locked for 20 minutes. And I´m pretty confident you know that.

Additionaly we have no relevant German lategame now.

OK, I am sorry. I think you are new boy = newbie = noob (as i translate).

You realy have problem versus emplacement?
We play versus top 200 and dont have problem win both side.

PS: I can not understand too many hate from allies/axis fanboys. Every reasonable player want ballanced game. Unballanced game lost players and go to the oblivion.

Kat onestly what's your opinion of this game right now ? No derailing

I'm stubborn, not blind.

I don't like current performance of USF mortar and I've already told what I would do with it, it should have lower range to make it harder to use and easier to counter barrage, as for OKW and SU and their respective match ups-the same deal as after every single redesign before-people who relied on gimmick which no longer exists are falling down, everyone is still learning to play with and against changed factions and this is reflected on charts-we've had exactly the same differences at first 2 week of previous patch-the patch that had almost perfectly factions against almost all modes, both AT and RT for above 1s.

I'd be concerned with the balance if charts will be like now in 2 weeks.

It's pointless to use charts right now because:
1. USF Mortar.
2. Combined Arms bug.
3. Lack of adapt for OKW players.
4. Ostheer is ostheer...

1 - just change this mortart for 61mm...
2 - just lelic's thing.
3 - I still see plenty of players who go for 3-4 Volks into med truck and whine that they lose. Last patch has opened plenty of new great strats yet people somehow still go for triple/quadruple Volks into Med HQ while they can do huge amount of other, better strats...
Just for example. I find non-volks strat very useful in 2v2. You only need to survive till 2CPs.
2x SP, 1x Kubel + raketen or second Kubel into 3 Fusiliers with Mech HQ + Med HQ with heavy Mech HQ play into JT. Insta win on some maps. So just stop playing 4 Volks like before...
4 - Pz III commander please or add Pz III in T2 with requirment of BP2.

Ground attack for HMGs could help against USF blobs.

Weren't you the first to use the charts to prove that it wasn't an issue.

Imo, I feel Ostheer underwhelming since the patch. Something lacking that can only be fulfilled with sniper play.

Before the patch, I wouldn't have buff Ostheer in any way without nerfing the sniper or buffing its direct counter.
Now they did it, I feel like you can't do anything without a good sniper micro and this is an issue, because the rest of the army feels really up.

Mortar indeed make life harder in 1vs1 vs USF (didn't played other mods), but also penals + guards combo which is really strong and probably not enough balanced in term of micro requirement vs Ostheer.

I haven't nailed the root cause yet, what is really the problem here but yes Ostheer should probably receive a sort buff on mid game between T2 and T3. T3 and T4 price decrease have been a good move, but the problem is somewhat before accessing them.

It still has great speed, crush and the gun is great vs infantry. It never needed an MG.

It was on the brink of losing it's crush tho lol, now that would have really crippled it.

Well, bug has not been fixed fully, but yeah, it covers a few days where it was blatant.

Guys, coh2charts is great an all, but strictly the number only say something about what your chances of winning are when you are in the top 250.

This doesn't directly translate to balance as that would require that the top 250 for each faction are on the same skill level. Further: There are more than 1000 games more for Allies in the top 250 than for Axis, guess what that means.

So, yeah, interesting maybe, but nothing to get worked up over, really...

+1

What simply wait one more week and not succumbing to hysteria?

Grens late game if they dont upgrade to LMG are worthless
Volks late game if they dont upgrade to StG are worthless
Obers late game if they dont upgrade to LMG are worthless
Riflemen late game if they dont upgrade to BARS/LMG are worthless
Guards late game if they dont upgrade to LMG are worthless
Panzerfusilier late game if they dont upgrade to G43 are worthless
So yes, Unupgraded british infantry if they dont upgrade to LMGs in late game they are worthless

Let's break down the IS and see what you're comparing them to.

The Infantry Section is a T0 British main line infantry that needs to hug cover or else they're dead, compared to any infantry unit (except for the Osttruppen maybe) they can't even survive crossing a road to get to cover and will lose more models than any other squad for doing so. If caught off guard and out of cover, they're ineffective and effectively dead, like I already mentioned.

They cost 280 man power to produce and 25 to reinforce, starting out as a 4 man squad that can be upgraded to a 5 man one, requiring even more resources to improve their effectiveness, then you have to additionally pay for any squad already on the field to get that extra squad member which brings the price of any squad BEFORE the upgrade at around 300 man power. Which leads to the main weakness of the British and that being their man power bleed and less squads on the field at any given time, this is also one of the reasons we almost never see more than 2 IS squads and people spamming Sappers and emplacements, Sappers are a hell of a lot cheaper while emplacements may not be cheap but at least they don't bleed you like IS do.

Further more they require the unlocking of Grenades (The mills isn't really effective compared to the other grenades in game) and the weapon racks, each Bren costing 60 ammo while being less effective than the Gren's MG42 LMG upgrade for example, plus their optional side upgrades being the pyrotechnics/medic supplies that's around 150/160 ammo invested in a squad IF you have double brens and either upgrade on them, and I'm using double brens as an example because let's face it, the PIAT is the worse hand-held AT weapon in the game and people generally don't really use it on any other squad besides the Sappers from time to time.

Further more their Vet 3 is actually working against them rather than for them, meaning they get less out of their top most veterancy rank compared to any other infantry unit, especially the Riflemen's survivability buff at Vet 3.

So, compared to Grens, they're kinda balanced when both are in cover and long range early game, the IS lose to MG42 Grens even when they get a 5th squad member, and the Grens lose to IS if they have the 5th man upgrade as well as a Bren on their side, they completely get destroyed by a double Bren 5 man IS squad with or without cover, not to mention of the IS also have the medic upgrade. That's one of the reasons why Wehrmacht find it so effective fighting the British with support weapons (Snipers being most effective because of the bleed they inflict) rather than their mainline infantry. Now don't quote me on this but I saw a video before of the Grens getting pitted against the IS in one such scenario like my example, that's where I got it from. And yes, the Grenadiers do need a buff if you ask me, a 5th man would do them justice compared to now.

Rifleman, against a 280 squad but arguably better in almost any way, all 5 members are armed with the M1 Garand which is superior at Close to mid range to any other mainline infantry squad, get smoke with the unlocking of their grenades, double BARs and veterancy 3 can even enable them to fight Obersoldaten, I also forgot to mention they get AT snares with veterancy 1. The only thing the IS have over these guys is their medic upgrade.

Volksgrenadiers - Still cheaper than and more spammable than the IS, get a cheap close to medium range effective upgrade that helps them scale as storm infantry later on compared to the IS, 5 man squad right from the get go, no upgrades required for them to achieve their full effectiveness at long range. They were even better before with the Panzershreck that helped them vet really fast compared to now. Oh and I also forgot, 5 vets.

Cons - they're shit, I don't even play Soviets so I really can't comment on Soviet infantry but I think being a 6 man squad they get wiped a lot less than the IS and don't bleed man power as much, Soviets also have a lot of doctrines that makes Cons pretty good support units and gives them more utility so there.

umm i think that was the case for the past 1 year no... funnily enough the game was most balanced when there was a bug that no veterancy applied to infy..lol

also when will obers and falls get buffed and rifle debuffed rest seem fine

umm i think that was the case for the past 1 year no... funnily enough the game was most balanced when there was a bug that no veterancy applied to infy..lol

That's because rifle vet gives them superior durability which feeds back into them also surviving to vet up easier. Rifle vet3 (and cons vet 3 to that effect) is a bit over the top. Needs some adjustments except relic are sadistic and get off on a frustrated player base.

Weren't you the first to use the charts to prove that it wasn't an issue.

Probably not, since I didnt post anything about charts...

Its not just balance of base faction, lots of questionable commanders have been repeatedly released for UKF and USF.

Its not just balance of base faction, lots of questionable commanders have been repeatedly released for UKF and USF.

If that was the case, why did the meta-game shift considerably since the release of the last commanders? According to your claim it should have stayed the same, since the commanders are to blame and no new commanders have been released for over four months...