OKW Infantry

I'd written a long post about why Zyllen was wrong about everything but the forum lost it. So I will simply say gtfo of the balance forum until you have half a clue what is going on in the game (and how to do basic maths!)

Lol your kind of cute like a barking puppy.

WTF are you talking about ? the okw has always been about strong heavy hitters on the front and weak support . and thats the reason why the leigh and mg34 and lv's have always been inferior to the allied counterparts.

if you tell me that the okw is meant to be played like the soviets then you are liar or dont play the game.

Expect Volks were never supposed to be these heavy hitters, hence the recent changes.

So why don't you then instantly decrew enemy raketen (with anything) and recapture it back and retreat it?

I often do. Other times it is put under protection of superior mg and longer range at. This doesn't really challenge my point though does it? Rather facile of you.

Expect Volks were never supposed to be these heavy hitters, hence the recent changes.

Where do you get the arrogance to claim this? do you have some source in relic that told you this?
The volks with shreks where the main tank killers for the okw it doesn't get any more heavy hitter then that.

And you have not answered my question either how are you supposed to play the okw as the soviets when your support weapons are not nearly as good as the soviets.

Your grasping at straws here and it shows.

Where do you get the arrogance to claim this? do you have some source in relic that told you this?[...]

Yes. Relic them selves kept repeating this during their interviews, streams, patch notes, forum etc. It is gardening everywhere.

No.
Only because you want Volks to be these uber soldiers with Vet5, doesn't meant Relic intended them to be. According to their OKW design philosophy you are support your mediocre basic infantry with other units like elites or vehicles. The same way Soviets do.

Did I say they should be uber at vet 5? I said their Vet 5 should be at least 1.66 (or 1.25 according to relic) times as good as other main inf.

And do you have a source on what OKWs design philosophy actually is? Because according to the original release media: "Brief Description: Volksgrenadiers are reformed from hardened veterans, recovering wounded and new recruits. They are potent frontline infantry for the OberKommando."

Where do you read mediocre?

Furthermore if OKW was meant to get their elite Inf like SU, they should be getting their Obersoldaten at 5 minutes (like Guards and Jesus troops) instead of 200 fuel into the game, where they get gibbed by tanks and rocket artillery.

It has been proven that it is a straight up upgrade to kar98s, it improves their DPS in all ranges bar the most extreme long range.

You just talk out of your ass because you can't adapt to the new meta and blame it on the game.

Keep on behaving like a spoiled child on this thread. It will surely enhance the quality of the responses.

Testing shows that stgs have issue at range.

Well idea to make KT buildable olny if all trucks are alive is very ok if we remove fuel cost for rebuilding trucks. Its like us oficers and dead swher hq forces KT stall now

Testing shows that stgs have issue at range.

The problem is that on practically EQUAL DPS, RNG has a huge factor on the outcomes. A Volk STG is always superior to the Kar in terms of DPS but it also means it relies less on RNG outcomes. It also has the benefit of getting scatter hits which can't be calculated.

Yes. Relic them selves kept repeating this during their interviews, streams, patch notes, forum etc. It is gardening everywhere.

Even if you what you say is true is it good idea to have a faction to have the weakest mainline infantry weakest support weak lv's , expensive tech and over expensive tanks ? i dont think so.
Its better to ask if the okw is balanced i dont find it so for reasons above.

Where is the advantage for playing the okw? at this moment the ostheer does everything better.

Did I say they should be uber at vet 5? I said their Vet 5 should be at least 1.66 (or 1.25 according to relic) times as good as other main inf.

And do you have a source on what OKWs design philosophy actually is? Because according to the original release media: "Brief Description: Volksgrenadiers are reformed from hardened veterans, recovering wounded and new recruits. They are potent frontline infantry for the OberKommando."

Where do you read mediocre?

Furthermore if OKW was meant to get their elite Inf like SU, they should be getting their Obersoldaten at 5 minutes (like Guards and Jesus troops) instead of 200 fuel into the game, where they get gibbed by tanks and rocket artillery.

If marketing jargon is enough evidance for you, then I have anything to add.

OKW elite infantry - Fals, Fusiliers etc. and of course Obers

Even if you what you say is true is it good idea to have a faction to have the weakest mainline infantry weakest support weak lv's , expensive tech and over expensive tanks ? i dont think so.
Its better to ask if the okw is balanced i dont find it so for reasons above.

Where is the advantage for playing the okw? at this moment the ostheer does everything better.

No comments.

The problem is that on practically EQUAL DPS, RNG has a huge factor on the outcomes. A Volk STG is always superior to the Kar in terms of DPS but it also means it relies less on RNG outcomes. It also has the benefit of getting scatter hits which can't be calculated.

On top of that, the STG seems to be less affected by moving than kar98 is.

On top of the moving accuracy things, STGs are a slot weapon. Which means, as your squad members gets depleted, you are going to be saving up most of your DPS as you run close (similar to how LMG Grens operate).

If you are floating munitions, I would say that the STG is a no-brainer; except for the fact that it eats up all your weapon slots.

However, given Volks' crappy veterancy stats, you aren't missing anything, either way. (give any dropped LMGs to Sturmpioneers instead; you have a terminator squad in the offing).

On top of that, the STG seems to be less affected by moving than kar98 is.

On top of the moving accuracy things, STGs are a slot weapon. Which means, as your squad members gets depleted, you are going to be saving up most of your DPS as you run close (similar to how LMG Grens operate).

If you are floating munitions, I would say that the STG is a no-brainer; except for the fact that it eats up all your weapon slots.

However, given Volks' crappy veterancy stats, you aren't missing anything, either way. (give any dropped LMGs to Sturmpioneers instead; you have a terminator squad in the offing).

Its definitely a no brainer . but its still a weak cost ineffective upgrade. the bar for example offers a simalar dps increase close range but nearly 2.5 times dps long range. the g43 upgrade of the ostheer is nearly 50 % better at short range and somewhat cheaper

Its definitely a no brainer . but its still a weak cost ineffective upgrade. the bar for example offers a simalar dps increase close range but nearly 2.5 times dps long range. the g43 upgrade of the ostheer is nearly 50 % better at short range and somewhat cheaper

One requires mp+fuel side tech and retreat to get it, another is locked behind a doctrine.
Hardly comparable.

If you believe its not cost effective upgrade, its fine, plant more mines or get one of 6 other types of AI infantry OKW has at their choice and keep using volks as punching bags.

Its definitely a no brainer . but its still a weak cost ineffective upgrade. the bar for example offers a simalar dps increase close range but nearly 2.5 times dps long range. the g43 upgrade of the ostheer is nearly 50 % better at short range and somewhat cheaper

After OKW 3.0 revamp, it is very difficult to me to draw the line between OKW and OST. That is to say, what is the intended design for each faction. OST seems to have had, traditionally, better ways of dealing with infantry, whereas OKW's "too much AT" legacy, might make it easier for them to survive, if they make it to the late-game (with OKW's stronger vehicles).

With respect to USF, however, it is easy to see that USF infantry should be more cost-effective than OKW infantry, because OKW late-game vehicles are more cost-effective and way less micro-intensive than the USF paper-fleet.

By how much cost-effective? I don't know.

However, I won't lie to you. I believe that infantry veterancy seems completely unfair, ever since lolvet buffs have been instituted along the board.
- Before lolvet buffs, gren spam was OP, because of 1) their vet bonuses, 2) the fact that LMG42 is extremely cost effective 3) the fact that slot items confer way more DPS than default weapons, and 4) slot items transfer to surviving members (thus, that DPS difference survives squad members being killed)
- A better solution would have been to just nerf that aspect of grenadiers. Instead, the power-creep route was adopted, and now we have lolvet Conscripts and lolvet Riflemen.

If you read the infantry-related changes in Firespark's mod, this is the direction infantry and slot-item vet should be headed to:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/51037/firesparks-balance-mod

Pay attention to the Conscript/Volks slot-item gained through vet. As I mentioned, one of the worst artifacts of over-vetting is that all vet bonuses transfer to the slot-items all to well. Factions without access to slot weapons (Soviets and, previously, OKW), were left behind in the arms race.

Imo, the main reasons why wiping "terminator veterancy" will bring us closer to the sweet spot than giving "terminator veterancy" to all units are:
- It will make the impact of elite units more felt (elite units will have to face vetted base infantry on their first few engagements)
- It will make MG upgrades on tanks more relevant (tank MGs don't benefit from vet)
- It will be a step away from sniper-spam play (more received vet from everyone -> longer engagements -> sniper doesn't care about your received accuracy).

+ Volks MP44 is garbage. Vanilla volks are much better at range than with those 60MU upgrades from close.

+ Obers are still overpriced sink of manpower.

+ And the idea of giving 90MU schrecks for SPs is just ridiculous. Now a single T34 can kill 2 of them without even trying. While Rifles with bazookas are fine.

+ Allied infantry running with double upgrades and terminator vet. Except i can reach vet3 4 months earlier than vet5 with OKW.


This is the effect of that bias allied lobby that some people do here. All i see in the game now is rifles and IS running with zooks, piats and LMGs. Cutting through everything, because all they need to know is how to toss smoke on an MG. Congratulation. Hope those who play this game via browser like it now...

+ Volks MP44 is garbage. Vanilla volks are much better at range than with those 60MU upgrades from close.

+ Obers are still overpriced sink of manpower.

+ And the idea of giving 90MU schrecks for SPs is just ridiculous. Now a single T34 can kill 2 of them without even trying. While Rifles with bazookas are fine.

+ Allied infantry running with double upgrades and terminator vet. Except i can reach vet3 4 months earlier than vet5 with OKW.


This is the effect of that bias allied lobby that some people do here. All i see in the game now is rifles and IS running with zooks, piats and LMGs. Cutting through everything, because all they need to know is how to toss smoke on an MG. Congratulation. Hope those who play this game via browser like it now...

Volk shreks were 90 mu and nobody complained about it. and the MP44 profile is literally Kar98 on full auto.

Obers need a buff, but they can now poop out of the flak truck, which can be useful and detrimental at times.

2 zookas = 1 shreck in terms of DPS, and require a side-tech

Spios now reach vet 5 in 5 seconds with shrecks, just like how volks got vet in 5 seconds before the patch.

Volk shreks were 90 mu and nobody complained about it. and the MP44 profile is literally Kar98 on full auto.

Obers need a buff, but they can now poop out of the flak truck, which can be useful and detrimental at times.

2 zookas = 1 shreck in terms of DPS, and require a side-tech

Spios now reach vet 5 in 5 seconds with shrecks, just like how volks got vet in 5 seconds before the patch.

Volks MP44 is not worth 60 MU, because they perform overall better on long range without it. G43 for Grens are so much better, yet those are 45MU.

Everyone cried because of schrecks for Volks, yet everywhere Rifles and IS running with PIATs and zooks. Yes their penetration accuracy and damage might be lower, but 5 men squads can be upgraded easily with those cheaps upgrade and in numbers they cause much more trouble than schrecks did.

Spio reach vet5 fast... good, but they lose 25% of their AI with the schreck upgrade, and a single explosive shell can easily cut them half. Would be better if they could holster the weapon like they can do with the sweepers.

Infantry game is now favours allied 200%.. funny how allies can go with "balance issues", axis got nerfed for.

Volks MP44 is not worth 60 MU, because they perform overall better on long range without it. G43 for Grens are so much better, yet those are 45MU.

[citation needed]

According to Cruzz, Volks lose no DPS at even extreme-long range when upgraded with MP44. Moreover, MP44 DPS while on the move is better than that Kar98 at all ranges.

Finally, you get much better DPS at close range (obviously), which stacks with the fact that MP44 gets transfered to the surviving models

Everyone cried because of schrecks for Volks, yet everywhere Rifles and IS running with PIATs and zooks. Yes their penetration accuracy and damage might be lower, but 5 men squads can be upgraded easily with those cheaps upgrade and in numbers they cause much more trouble than schrecks did.

It is an issue, yes. However, you always nerf the strongest BS first, before you pick on the weaker ones. If you ask me, then, yes. Now is also the time to look at Rifle blobs/Tommy blobs.

Check Firesparks' mod.