Role of the sturmpioneer in upcoming patch

You can't get both upgrades at the same time? That's dumbtarded, yo

Yes you can, so far anyways.

You just need to select the other upgrade before the first one is finished, otherwise the option would disappear. So if you got 110 munitions, you upgrade panzerschreck and wait for munitions to get to 30, then select minesweeper. If you time it right, the game won't lock out minesweepers.

Yes, it does require you to commit more munitions into a single unit in a timeframe, but the end result is a Sturmpionier squad with both upgrades.

IMO I think it's okay, you're just concentrating more munitions into a unit that is either going out attacking tanks, or staying put to repair stuff; either way, you've committed munitions for mutually exclusive roles: you can't repair stuff, take on infantry and take on tanks all at once. And even if you could, you're making them perform three roles where other units can manage two of them. That's considerable risk in munitions investment and tactics just to have a unit fill more roles. The only real problem is that, of the three roles Sturmpioniers can fill, their initial role of StG44s can be replaced by another unit.
And if you're holding back munitions for the dual upgrade, you're also holding back 120 munitions per squad from other things like panzerfaust/ StG44 upgrades.
And of course if you're short on munitions, you're forced to choose one or the other and be forced to spam Sturmpioners to fill a greater role.

In that regard being able to get both is fine to me, they already cost munitions on a unit that can't to all of them at once and itself is expensive. It's either that or Sturmspam.

You are a hardcore flamer Bro. You're at a ten in this thread when the rest of us are at a two.

It's gonna be a struggle for me to take your opinions on this stuff seriously when you have 12 total matches played.

Honestly I was expecting you to pull the "I'm offended" card so props to you for not doing that, I was really expecting that.

No idea what you're talking about even.

I have close to 10 years and countless matches played since the first CoH so... my playercard is for people like you to have a kick out of it, still tho, unlike I can mod the game and I actually know how to make balance instead of just whining about it with numbers and perfect scenarios in my head, not to mention trying to humiliate people with their rank that couldn't give less of a fuck about it.

Don't you understand Relic is balancing the game around 1vs1? omygod

Open your eyes, do something.

Hey, you started with the Wehr MG42 and OKW Sturmpioneer example, or is that 1v1 again?

And again, you're effectively delaying your mainline unit production and tech-ing if you start spamming MG 42s like the Wehrmacht which opposed to the OKW only have 2 units in their HQ building, and you'll only ever need another pioneer squad if you lose the first one or need more and cheaper capping power and recrewing of team weapons, not to mention repairs for tanks. So I still really don't see a problem with even a single MG34 being on the field, any smart OKW player would build max 2 if the MG34 was not to require another HQ truck if he wanted to stay in the game for longer than 5 minutes.

Hey, you started with the Wehr MG42 and OKW Sturmpioneer example, or is that 1v1 again?

And again, you're effectively delaying your mainline unit production and tech-ing if you start spamming MG 42s like the Wehrmacht which opposed to the OKW only have 2 units in their HQ building, and you'll only ever need another pioneer squad if you lose the first one or need more and cheaper capping power and recrewing of team weapons, not to mention repairs for tanks. So I still really don't see a problem with even a single MG34 being on the field, any smart OKW player would build max 2 if the MG34 was not to require another HQ truck if he wanted to stay in the game for longer than 5 minutes.

You really don't understand what you are talking about. have your play 1vs1 recently? I mean since WFA release?

Since you wanted to give a try to SP+HMG, I gave you an existant example of how Sturmpio + HMG early start is powerful. We don't need to give a try, we already know it.
Here you are the only one making movies inside your head, talking about theorycraft or BO or whatever to convince yourself of your good idea. Too bad, it is a bad idea, we know it, devs know it, balance designers know it, just acknowledge it and pass over.

I'd prefer to rather allow only one bazooka per squad. The only exception for this will be the captain. The caption should get 2 bazookas for 80 munitions via his upgrade. The limitation would not be achieved by increasing the amount of slots it takes up just for the sake of allowing infantry to pick up an additional slot item.

This should decrease the amount of bazookas you'd see. If not, it would hopefully at least be a step along the way towards a better future.

i try to blob at least 2 pairs of bazookas whenever i can in 2v2+... one bazooka is literally nothing. you need 2 to at least keep light vehicles away, 4 to keep mediums away and 6 to barely keep heavies away.

i know bazooka isn't the only AT but double zook on single squad allow it to be a nagging AT in conjunction to a proper AT. limiting that weak shit to one per squad will make it a nagging AT in conjunction of a supporting AT that is in support of the main AT.

Volks were cheap Infantry with poor AI ability, given decent AT ability. Riflemen are somewhat expensive Infantry with good AI ability, and can buy meh AT ability. Riflemen have a lot more to lose for less to gain than Volksgrenadiers did.

and with rear echelon's squishness and reinforcement cost, keeping REs for zooks will cost quite a mp bleed as well

You really don't understand what you are talking about. have your play 1vs1 recently? I mean since WFA release?

Since you wanted to give a try to SP+HMG, I gave you an existant example of how Sturmpio + HMG early start is powerful. We don't need to give a try, we already know it.
Here you are the only one making movies inside your head, talking about theorycraft or BO or whatever to convince yourself of your good idea. Too bad, it is a bad idea, we know it, devs know it, balance designers know it, just acknowledge it and pass over.

Oh so this is a case of "I'm right, you're wrong, end of story, bla bla bla bla I don't hear you" scenario, gotcha, happy living in your fantasy world then, cya.

Can I just step in and recommend we end the flame wars? Really doesn't make any sense, clearly neither side thinks the other has merit.

The SP in the next patch will function as it does now, but if you need it, can act as light AT support. It is unlikely they unit will be able to become an actual AT unit because of its high cost, single shrek, and other required roles. However, I would recommend dropping munitions on the unit in the mid to late game to allow you to pick up vet and get faster repairs. Vet 4 and 5 are rare right now but very potent when acquired for SPs. Also keep in mind that volks will fill a greater AI roll so SP can afford to invest in AT as the game proceeds and the Volks get decked out with STGs.

To answer the question about the MG34. If an MG34 was available in T0 OKW would have access to everything in their T0 structure: AT, AI, AT gun, Suppression platform, scout car. This is unacceptable. To get suppression OKW has to make a decision of some kind. In return other factions that get a T0 machine gun also have to make a decision about how to proceed. Nobody gets everything.

i try to blob at least 2 pairs of bazookas whenever i can in 2v2+... one bazooka is literally nothing. you need 2 to at least keep light vehicles away, 4 to keep mediums away and 6 to barely keep heavies away.

i know bazooka isn't the only AT but double zook on single squad allow it to be a nagging AT in conjunction to a proper AT. limiting that weak shit to one per squad will make it a nagging AT in conjunction of a supporting AT that is in support of the main AT.



and with rear echelon's squishness and reinforcement cost, keeping REs for zooks will cost quite a mp bleed as well

Seems about right. All you have to do is use 2 squads at the same time, or simply use the captain if the change I mentioned were to be in-game.

It's like a dream faction and unless the waiting time will be too long I'm going to play mostly okw this patch.

If it's a dream faction then why do you struggle with it and Ostheer in terms of win ratios compared with allied factions? You are hardly a noob after all.

I still don't understand why Schrecks on volks aren't ok but usf still gets to keep their bazooka spam. Usf can easily field twice as much handheld at.

+1

okw is facing usf paper tanks so even zooks will do great vs shermans or t34

But USF has very strong AI in their light and medium armour so no it's not as simple as that. OKW anti infantry armour is not as potent until you get KT.

If it's a dream faction then why do you struggle with it and Ostheer in terms of win ratios compared with allied factions? You are hardly a noob after all.

I ment it is going to be a dream faction in the new patch, so my past win ratios are not relevant. Thats's what the thread is about.

Also my okw rank was usually similar to allied ranks, excluding brits, I was always worse as brits than any other faction excluding ostheer. And as for ostheer, I tried hard to learn to use it well, coming up with differet strategies, pioneering in some metas, but still I never learned a proper way to play them but still my ost rank was always twice the sov rank. Maybe I'm just bad at defencive factions, who knows. I know for a fact though that there are people whose playstyle fits well only into ost and brits and they struggle as any other faction, so it is more playstyle than ballance problem.

But USF has very strong AI in their light and medium armour so no it's not as simple as that. OKW anti infantry armour is not as potent until you get KT.

p4 with it scatter and crazy vet rate say hi
luchs say hi
oswind from doctrine say hi
even sturmtiger rekt hard

p4 with it scatter and crazy vet rate say hi
luchs say hi
oswind from doctrine say hi
even sturmtiger rekt hard

I'm not saying they are bad, but compare the luchs kill rate to the stuart or the aaht... p4 to the HE shells of the sherman...

Can I just step in and recommend we end the flame wars? Really doesn't make any sense, clearly neither side thinks the other has merit.

The SP in the next patch will function as it does now, but if you need it, can act as light AT support. It is unlikely they unit will be able to become an actual AT unit because of its high cost, single shrek, and other required roles. However, I would recommend dropping munitions on the unit in the mid to late game to allow you to pick up vet and get faster repairs. Vet 4 and 5 are rare right now but very potent when acquired for SPs. Also keep in mind that volks will fill a greater AI roll so SP can afford to invest in AT as the game proceeds and the Volks get decked out with STGs.

To answer the question about the MG34. If an MG34 was available in T0 OKW would have access to everything in their T0 structure: AT, AI, AT gun, Suppression platform, scout car. This is unacceptable. To get suppression OKW has to make a decision of some kind. In return other factions that get a T0 machine gun also have to make a decision about how to proceed. Nobody gets everything.

+1

From everything the pro SP schreck group has been saying, all the grievance would have been solved by tying Schrecks to the number of trucks set up

From everything the pro SP schreck group has been saying, all the grievance would have been solved by tying Schrecks to the number of trucks set up

You'd really trade Volks Fausts and StGs and SP Schrecks for just 3 Volk Schrecks?

You'd really trade Volks Fausts and StGs and SP Schrecks for just 3 Volk Schrecks?

I usually only run 2-3 volks squads anyways with a racketen or 2. So, Yes. I would much rather have 3 schrecks on volks then 2 schrecks on SP because I'm not going to ever be making more than 2. SP are a huge liability late game. Losing your vet 2 SP kills your ability to keep armour on the field. SP are already flimsy and priority targeted.

I usually only run 2-3 volks squads anyways with a racketen or 2. So, Yes. I would much rather have 3 schrecks on volks then 2 schrecks on SP because I'm not going to ever be making more than 2. SP are a huge liability late game. Losing your vet 2 SP kills your ability to keep armour on the field. SP are already flimsy and priority targeted.

Me too more or less, but at least three Fausts for one Schreck? Definitely something I'd take. The new SP Schreck should also make SP replacement a lot more feasible to deal with actually.

Literally sturm pioneer:

Or