Howitzers

First - some old, but still necessary suggestions:

1. Howitzers supression. I think it would be good to add to howitzers some kind of "AoE supression" around blast area of shell, size should be dependable on caliber of howitzer - small AoE for 87mm or 105mm for example, but bigger for 203mm. It would add both efficiency and realism to Howitzer guns, which are suppoused to be "support" units". So - they would support better, than they do now against infantry.

It might be "short-time supression", breakable after few secs and not insta-red even from direct hit.

2.) Causing "small critical damages" to tanks from direct hits. It would be also part of improving of "support efficiency" of howitzers. Howitzers are pretty... poor accurate, so they rarely hit directly tanks and deal good damage on them. So, for to make that moment of luck more... exciting I think would be fair to add causing small damages to vechiles by direct hit, like Turret Lock, or Crew Stun or Engine overheat... You know, those "yellow" damages, significant, but not deadly, like engine or turret destroy. It would also add some realsim to Howitzers mechanics. And of course - rise support value of those guns.

As Artilleryfag I think, that such improvements would really make Howitzers worth their 600 MP or 400-500 MP and ~100 fuel (for S-P) and also worth taking doctrines with howitzers... but without heavy tanks or other late game powerful tools. Right now, it's more reasonable in all game mods at allmost all maps take "heavy tank doctrines" or others, with real combat units in, but refuse from Howitzers, because when you take howitzer-doctrine - it's signing pact of enevitable and 100% loss for yourself.

Such improvements would also solve another problem - domination of rocket artillery platforms over Howitzers arty. It's obvious for everyone, who played in CoH 2 - Rocket arty is way more efficicent against traditional "arty" targets: large infantry groups, static positions. Rockets cover instantly big area with rockets and deal huge damage to all targets, while howitzers shooting slow, inaccurate and give a lot of chanses to enemy to save their infantry or static positions or even tanks (depends on luck) from Howitzer barages. That's just not right, if we also keep in mind, that vanilla rocket platforms (Katya and Werfer) are non-doctrinal, while almost all howitzers in game (except shitty base QF 25s) are doctrinal. What for I should take doctrine with Howitzer, if I can get better artillery without it and take something better, like IS-2 or Tiger Ace? Seriously...

And last point. A lot of people will say "buff howitzers - buff campstyle play = bad idea". Ok, but here is another problem we have - Howitzers exist in CoH 2, they are obviously "campstyle" units, we can't do anything about it. So, if we hate campers and we don't want to see such gameplay in CoH 2 - why not to remove Howitzers at all, instead of keeping them in game but holding them in condition "useless, vunerable and expensive"? That doesn't make sense, you either have units of some type and some "gameplay style" and make it worth (really huge) investments in that, or you remove it, because you don't want to see such units and such gameplay in your game! That's really mockery under players like me, who like howitzers! "You want to play on arty, retard? Here is your arty but... wait, it sux! Because we want it suck, we designed it to suck, because majority hates people like you, campers, so - go lose and suck to normal players, retard artyfag". That's some kind of bait, where in the end game pisses on your face. That's some kind of bad trolling, stop it CoH, please!

1. Why 600 manpower and 100 fuel? Are you trying to make artillery pieces their own graves?

2. No one is going to spend that amount of manpower unless its a team game. Even then, its a risky move considering the German's ability to counter artillery pieces with their Stuka dive bombs.

The only buff I would give to howitzers is that they don't get instantly destroyed by offmap arty or stukas, but only get unmanned ( like the rest of team weapons). Otherwise some of them are pretty good ( the left for example)

Actually, buffing howitzers is a nerf to campy playstyle

First of all. I like howitzers too but as long as certain off map arty strikes can reduce them to ash in a single click (I'm looking at you Stuka bomb strike) nobody in their right mind is going to invest in 600 mp + 100 fuel in static artillery, even more so if it can't be built in HQ territory.

Edit: beaten to it

Second of all;

"You want to play on arty, retard? Here is your arty but... wait, it sux! Because we want it suck, we designed it to suck, because majority hates people like you, campers, so - go lose and suck to normal players, retard artyfag". That's some kind of bait, where in the end game pisses on your face. That's some kind of bad trolling, stop it CoH, please!

are you OK "artilleryfag" ? I mean in real life? I'm not going to lie. I've read some strange shit on the Internet, but that is right up there..

1) Howitzers are not "campy playstyle", they are "anti-campy playstyle" tools.
2) If Howitzers are "anti-campy playstyle" tools, then they should suck when you play against NOT campy opponent.

Start by making them 500 manpower and 14 population and give them a tad more health so they're not killed by stuff like the Stuka bomb. Then re-assess.

Reduce their MP Cost and gives them Fuel Cost, also makes them not 1-shotted by Stuka bomb.

Tank crits are better then suppression. We already have rocket artillery for anti-infantry there is no reason to have the howitzers overlap roles with them and they are good enough as is vs infantry, it's tanks they do nothing against, even though they have the damage potential, but in a real game you'll be lucky to score a single hit.

Short story, 2 things.

1. Howies can inflict various critical on vehicles.
2. Off maps cannot destroy howies. Let's say that IL-2 or Dive Bomb take 90% of health but howies can be repairs only to 50% so the next drop (what ever the ability is) means howie is rekt.

Oh and suppression just for B-4.

Perhaps give all Howitzers the ability to act like big AT guns like the B-4s direct fire?

It would give them a bit more versatility at least

They should be able to move extremely slowly. Then stukas aren't so viciously punishing, your 600 mp isn't wasted as soon as the enemy is out of range, and you get a nice risk/reward based on placement. Vehicle critical a would also help (and be historically accurate) but that's less necessary IMO.

280 and 30 fuel as Bofors or 350 and 50 fuel as Matress would be good

This is noncence.

Principal problem of howis their cost. 600mp is insane investement in late game when fuel are plenty and manpower are precious. This combined with easy means of destruction by point and click abilities makes them totally useless.

It doesnt matter what you add to them, as long as previous problem remains nothing would change.

Easiest soultion is to change cost to 400mp/100fu or close to make them similar to rocket arty.

If there is anything that the ISG-fest patch taught us it should be that suppression on artillery is goddamn cancer. It *might* make sense for B4 due to it being a single shot and at least compensates you for being the RNG cannon that it is, that is the suppression compensates you for near hits. Anything else just results in giant suppression no-go zones due to the high scatter (not to mention endless suppression in your base in 1v1).

Miragefla has it pretty good in his mod IMO

1. Reduce MP cost and offset with token fuel cost to make it more cost efficient
2. Prevent howitzers from being one-shotted by off-maps.

1. Why 600 manpower and 100 fuel? Are you trying to make artillery pieces their own graves?
2. No one is going to spend that amount of manpower unless its a team game. Even then, its a risky move considering the German's ability to counter artillery pieces with their Stuka dive bombs.

1) Howitzers are not "campy playstyle", they are "anti-campy playstyle" tools.
2) If Howitzers are "anti-campy playstyle" tools, then they should suck when you play against NOT campy opponent.

The only buff I would give to howitzers is that they don't get instantly destroyed by offmap arty or stukas, but only get unmanned ( like the rest of team weapons). Otherwise some of them are pretty good ( the left for example)

First of all. I like howitzers too but as long as certain off map arty strikes can reduce them to ash in a single click (I'm looking at you Stuka bomb strike) nobody in their right mind is going to invest in 600 mp + 100 fuel in static artillery, even more so if it can't be built in HQ territory.
are you OK "artilleryfag" ? I mean in real life? I'm not going to lie. I've read some strange shit on the Internet, but that is right up there..

These. And arty is not "campy". If anything its anti camp.
Also, lol'd at artilleryfag

What about a howitzer hit stunning nearby infantry?

I prefer off-map barrages as opposed to actual howitzers in the game. The former prove to be far superior.

I prefer off-map barrages as opposed to actual howitzers in the game. The former prove to be far superior.

Unless you happen to be SU, the only off-map that I find usable are Incendiary Arty and PTAB.

Fixing offmaps one-shotting crew and gun would probably be enough. I wouldn't be opposed to vehicle crits though, as long as its not mobility damage

If there is anything that the ISG-fest patch taught us it should be that suppression on artillery is goddamn cancer. It *might* make sense for B4 due to it being a single shot and at least compensates you for being the RNG cannon that it is, that is the suppression compensates you for near hits. Anything else just results in giant suppression no-go zones due to the high scatter (not to mention endless suppression in your base in 1v1).

Miragefla has it pretty good in his mod IMO

1. Reduce MP cost and offset with token fuel cost to make it more cost efficient
2. Prevent howitzers from being one-shotted by off-maps.

Good post, I agree. I still think the ML-20 should be a litte tougher though. It was reversed too much.