Rear Echelon Squads

Pios are completely different story really.

You can't tech and can't repair without them.

They can also put down mines and don't require doctrinal dedication to get flamer.

You can't really compare them, because they are more backbone unit then grens, while RETs are just cool coats, all bark, no bite squad(when relic changed them to be stronger and more expensive, they should have went for accuracy, not for dmg increase).

As I've said, FP cost to 50, remaining cost with .50 cal so RETs can actually utilize their current, interesting but punishing with cost kit should be the first step.

FP spam for cheap cover? Not a problem for OKW, because flame nades, not a problem for Ost, because vet1 HMG and 222 will make a short work of them.

RE's are fine as a combat unit with weapon upgrades especially since they are designed for a support role not a combat one.

The main problem is the volley fire ability which penalises their received accuracy so much. It should be reduced so that RE's can be effective in a defensive role for warding off enemy troops while rifles maintain their aggressive role.

FP spam for cheap cover? Not a problem for OKW, because flame nades, not a problem for Ost, because vet1 HMG and 222 will make a short work of them.

That's a load of crap. How is OKW going to be able to afford all these flame nades, fausts and STGs now plus whatever other necessary abilities? It's totally unnecessary, FPs are fine and already very cheap.

That's a load of crap. How is OKW going to be able to afford all these flame nades, fausts and STGs now plus whatever other necessary abilities? It's totally unnecessary, FPs are fine and already very cheap.

FP can be killed by small arms fire so unless you got some other squad to guard it (which kinda defeat the point of FP), a single pio squad can wreck it and regarding flame nades, flame nades cost 30 muni, FP upgrade need 60 muni so no if you spam FP you would be the one out of muni.

FP spam for cheap cover? Not a problem for OKW, because flame nades, not a problem for Ost, because vet1 HMG and 222 will make a short work of them.

Psh that's a load of overkill.

All you need to defeat FP is a lot of small-arms fire and the FP is dead. No joke, with enough infantry you can even overpower an upgraded FP from the front....with JUST small arms fire.

1. The Kubelwagen effect
One of the most powerful feature of Rear Echelons is that they are the best early kubelwagon counter in the game possibly. Since the target size of the Kubelwagen is 14, all infantry shots are going to translate into hits (regardless of whether the firing unit is moving or not).

This is because:
- RE's have DECENT DPS, even though their accuracy is LOW.
- Since their accuracy is LOW, firing against a bigger target (where accuracy doesn't matter), will multiply RE DPS by a bigger amount than other untis (e.g., Riflemen)

Incidentally, this is why, if the kubelwagen/M3A1 etc catches you out of cover, you should keep moving.
- While your units are moving, they don't really lose DPS (ok, there's the cooldown penalty, but it doesn't matter that much)
- While the kubelwagen rotates (to face your units), it suffers a bigger DPS decrease than your units.

2. The abandon mechanic effect

One of the most annoying things about the RE price hike (from 160 MP to 200 MP) is that USF does not have access to replacement vehicle crews. If you want to capture a tank/light vehicle, you have to dedicate an entire squad to that vehicle.

Currently, the cheapest infantry unit for USF is the Major (160 MP), but you can only field one of them. It would be nice if a squad would step up to fill that role (if not the RE's).

-Start by removing the RA debuff while using volley fire.

-Reduce cost of bunker to 75-100 and translate the mp difference to the MG upgrade.

I really like the idea of cheaper pits and bonus in friendly territory. They should be off the front and ensuring you can zone breakthroughs until reinforcements can arrive. Also do the Rifle nades fire from the carbine or the model? (as in will bars reduce the amount of nades?)

I really like the idea of cheaper pits and bonus in friendly territory. They should be off the front and ensuring you can zone breakthroughs until reinforcements can arrive. Also do the Rifle nades fire from the carbine or the model? (as in will bars reduce the amount of nades?)

Pretty sure they only shoot one for a given amount of time, never didn't think much about that...I'd assume it'd be a bug if it did since I've seen LT squads down to a BAR gunner shoot smoke out of their BAR which a grenade launcher doesn't exist for (...or for M1 carbines but you get what I mean).

1. The Kubelwagen effect
One of the most powerful feature of Rear Echelons is that they are the best early kubelwagon counter in the game possibly. Since the target size of the Kubelwagen is 14, all infantry shots are going to translate into hits (regardless of whether the firing unit is moving or not).

This is because:
- RE's have DECENT DPS, even though their accuracy is LOW.
- Since their accuracy is LOW, firing against a bigger target (where accuracy doesn't matter), will multiply RE DPS by a bigger amount than other untis (e.g., Riflemen)

Incidentally, this is why, if the kubelwagen/M3A1 etc catches you out of cover, you should keep moving.
- While your units are moving, they don't really lose DPS (ok, there's the cooldown penalty, but it doesn't matter that much)
- While the kubelwagen rotates (to face your units), it suffers a bigger DPS decrease than your units.

OOOOOORRRRRRRRRR because of this



(I'm not sure if that works anymore)

They used to still be a good choice if you really hated Kubels because they were even cheaper for more squads on the field faster to spread out and avoid Kubel fire-arcs.

OOOOOORRRRRRRRRR because of this



(I'm not sure if that works anymore)

They used to still be a good choice if you really hated Kubels because they were even cheaper for more squads on the field faster to spread out and avoid Kubel fire-arcs.

I'm not sure if that works, but Romeo's definitely used that trick to delay retreating squads fairly recently.

On most maps this really isn't an issue. Arnhem checkpoint is the only one I can think of that really has this problem. Even la gleiz doesn't have any buildings within rifle nade range of each other, except maybe the four buildings in the middle but I think those may be just out of range.

1v1 maybe. I think it'd be pretty disruptive in team games. Ettlebruck, Vielsalm, Trois-ponts, and city 17 all have areas where this could be an issue. TBF plenty of those areas aren't really places where combat tends to happen.

Alright, so I think it's time we had a serious chat about these guys. They have two fundamental problems right now.

1. Volley Fire was overnerfed.

2. They aren't "necessary" as engineers due to vehicle crews, and aren't effective enough in combat to be appealing. Even things like building cover and wire can be replaced by riflemen field defenses or assault engineers depending on doctrine choice.

On the flip side, they have two great strengths.

1. They benefit significantly from weapon upgrades and become very cost effective infantry. Volley fire becomes much better with weapons as well.

2. They have unique abilities (Tank Traps, Riflegrenade) that are pretty solid.



So here's what I was thinking on how to make them a more appealing unit, without making them superior to riflemen or significantly changing much about them.

In friendly territory, rear echelon squads should get bonuses to their accuracy and rate of fire. This would fit with the idea of them as backline troops, while also buffing their basic combat performance and volley fire in the early game and allow mixed armies of RE and Riflemen to better compete against other factions.

They should also get their riflegrenade ability when garrisoning any building, not just fighting positions.

sounds pretty decent should try that or take incoming fire off the volley fire

should give flamethrowers to REs and sturmpios without requiring doctrines imo