Rear Echelon Squads

Alright, so I think it's time we had a serious chat about these guys. They have two fundamental problems right now.

1. Volley Fire was overnerfed.

2. They aren't "necessary" as engineers due to vehicle crews, and aren't effective enough in combat to be appealing. Even things like building cover and wire can be replaced by riflemen field defenses or assault engineers depending on doctrine choice.

On the flip side, they have two great strengths.

1. They benefit significantly from weapon upgrades and become very cost effective infantry. Volley fire becomes much better with weapons as well.

2. They have unique abilities (Tank Traps, Riflegrenade) that are pretty solid.



So here's what I was thinking on how to make them a more appealing unit, without making them superior to riflemen or significantly changing much about them.

In friendly territory, rear echelon squads should get bonuses to their accuracy and rate of fire. This would fit with the idea of them as backline troops, while also buffing their basic combat performance and volley fire in the early game and allow mixed armies of RE and Riflemen to better compete against other factions.

They should also get their riflegrenade ability when garrisoning any building, not just fighting positions.

If we make them a lot more legitimate combat units we should probably nerf their repair speed a bit too.

And then we should nerf RoyEs' repair speed because holy shit they're nuts.

If we make them a lot more legitimate combat units we should probably nerf their repair speed a bit too.

And then we should nerf RoyEs' repair speed because holy shit they're nuts.

I could live with that, but honestly America is always going to have a shit ton of repair squads anyway so even if they repair slightly slower, they're usually repairing with a vehicle crew or two anyway. Americas vehicles are balanced around always being repaired.

If we make them a lot more legitimate combat units we should probably nerf their repair speed a bit too.

And then we should nerf RoyEs' repair speed because holy shit they're nuts.

No one uses them for repairs.

If there was one thing I'd change about them, it would be decreasing FP cost to 50 and adding remaining(up to current) with .50 cal upgrade, so utilizing their unique rifle nade is actually a reasonable choice instead of punishing waste.

No one uses them for repairs.

If there was one thing I'd change about them, it would be decreasing FP cost to 50 and adding remaining(up to current) with .50 cal upgrade, so utilizing their unique rifle nade is actually a reasonable choice instead of punishing waste.

Sometimes I get another one because I'm going Rifle Company and want a sweeper along with my flamethrower

For real though their repair speed per model is tied for the best with all the repairing squads and a vet 3 they get another model which'll make it even faster so I could potentially see a problem if they far more regularly and easily vet up. I mean, their current speed is certainly not unjustified when they're weak as hell (unlike RoyEs like for srs).

I like that too. The rifle grenade option is too infrequently useful considering the sunk cost of the FP is going to make you to go hard on it and 50. cal it, so then the FP needs to be in a good place for the REs to rifle grenade enemies and also lock down the area later with the 50. cal...

They should also get their riflegrenade ability when garrisoning any building, not just fighting positions.

I like this idea, it gives more options to the USF player and allows the possibility of the USF to have an advantage in urban maps and allows a grenade option until the Riflemen hand grenade upgrade is completed.

No one uses them for repairs.

If there was one thing I'd change about them, it would be decreasing FP cost to 50 and adding remaining(up to current) with .50 cal upgrade, so utilizing their unique rifle nade is actually a reasonable choice instead of punishing waste.

Pershing commander says hello? If you're not usin them for extra accelerated repairs sometimes ur wasting them.

I like RE's, I don't like their new 200mp cost, including the new reinforce cost, Thanks To re spam blob abuse, and ofc the rifle company nerf.

They were amazing in pairs or triads before with 5 men at vet 2. Some people just couldn't stop at 2-3 though...no they had to get 8-9-10-11-20 squads of echelons, catch the eye of the nerf gods and get them nerfed. Feels bad man

Pershing commander says hello? If you're not usin them for extra accelerated repairs sometimes ur wasting them.

I like RE's, I don't like their new 200mp cost, including the new reinforce cost, Thanks To re spam blob abuse, and ofc the rifle company nerf.

They were amazing in pairs or triads before with 5 men at vet 2. Some people just couldn't stop at 2-3 though...no they had to get 8-9-10-11-20 squads of echelons, catch the eye of the nerf gods and get them nerfed. Feels bad man

SPrice has a fever and the only cure is more blob spam

I dunno about buffing them. I agree they're a bad unit, but I think their badness is just part of balance for USF. If they were even a semi-decent combat unit (either due to damage or Volley Fire being good) it would probably push USF over into OPness.

Tie making them cheaper to a fuel based T0 upgrade

30 fuel

I like this idea, it gives more options to the USF player and allows the possibility of the USF to have an advantage in urban maps and allows a grenade option until the Riflemen hand grenade upgrade is completed.

That'd probably be overpowered. Any building in riflenade range of another building would be off limits for MG garrisons.

Just throwing out ideas here:

You could make RE more like Osttruppen. Give them an accuracy bonus when behind cover. That would help them combat pios that try to charge them over open ground and would make the fighting pit without an MG more viable.

Alternatively you could just replace them with the combat engies from the Armor Commander. Their flamethrower would solve USF's anti-garrison issues but their relative lack of ranged DPS, 4 man squad, and expensive price would ensure they can't be spammed effectively.

That'd probably be overpowered. Any building in riflenade range of another building would be off limits for MG garrisons.

On most maps this really isn't an issue. Arnhem checkpoint is the only one I can think of that really has this problem. Even la gleiz doesn't have any buildings within rifle nade range of each other, except maybe the four buildings in the middle but I think those may be just out of range.

I honestly think a one second buff to volley fire is all they need.

To make REs useful, besides being a capping unit, give them zooks. You can have zooks & the sweeper so they are good in a support role.

On a side note, I believe every faction should have flamers by default so if REs could get flamers, we would see them used more.

I wouldn't mind see them come stock with 5 man. Give them a fighting shot in cover against opening SP charge. They wont win but less arse rape into retreat in the opening minute of the game.

Pershing commander says hello? If you're not usin them for extra accelerated repairs sometimes ur wasting them.

Because exceptions are general rules now

Remove from them the ability to pickup rack weapons and give them riflenade ability vet1 (same as gren) and flamethrower for 60 amo.

So

1- USF need to equip Zooks on some RM which reduce the LMG blob power.
2- You'll need to keep your RE alive to use riflenade and mix them with your RM squads, here again reducing LMG blob power since they can't pick them and need to go close to deal flame damage.

Remove from them the ability to pickup rack weapons and give them riflenade ability vet1 (same as gren) and flamethrower for 60 amo.

So

1- USF need to equip Zooks on some RM which reduce the LMG blob power.
2- You'll need to keep your RE alive to use riflenade and mix them with your RM squads, here again reducing LMG blob power since they can't pick them and need to go close to deal flame damage.

I like your logic

"Lets cripple USF core faction mechanic and punish another unit for REs being unappealing choice without any purpose due to the need of at least 100 muni investment to make them usable."

Flamthrower is always an appealing choice, following your logic pioneer isn't an appealing choice since you need to invest amo to get them combat effective mid-to-late game.
Hell They may become even more interesting to mix with RMs with their FT and riflenade vet1. FT let you vet them very fast and then you can spam riflenade on HMGs, giving Ostheer their own medicine.

Last it gives you other tech choices, delay BARs/Zook upgrade since you use your first 60-120 amo into 1-2 FT. Not upgrading nade if the mortar make through the patch you'll use smoke from it.

Anyway I'm always looking for balance, I don't want to improve RE only for the sake of having them better and USF better, I want them balance and offering interesting options at cost of decision and delaying other things.