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Updates on BALANCE PREVIEW MOD

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22 Apr 2016, 04:33 AM
#41
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

Rip mines, rip okw. #dedgaem
22 Apr 2016, 04:35 AM
#42
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The changes to the Captain and the Jackson seem pretty arbitrary and changes for changes' sake.

The vet 3 for the SU-85 seems unnecessary with the improvements to its penetration, not to mention it is going to reload slower. With its potential damage output throttled it will at least have less bounced shots.
22 Apr 2016, 04:37 AM
#43
avatar of Crumbum

Posts: 213

Some good changes but some really ridiculous ones too. SU-85 didn't need to be adjusted that much, accuracy and some pen is nice but the vehicle is gonna be completely different and perhaps too strong.

I would have preferred the usf mortar to be switched with the 50cal on liut since the 50 cal arrives quite late already and captain has the pack howitzer, meaning you have an option for indirect fire if you choose either of these tiers. Putting the 50 cal in hq will also provide more viable build orders for the early game rather than rifle rifle rifle etc. The large penetration might be an issue for kubels though.

Removing the zooks from captain but not the bar from liut? Seeems odd either change both or keep both since you go captain because you might need soft AT and liut for extra anti-inf. Nerfing the captain seems unnecessary since zooks aren't good vs inf anymore in this mod, its only 80 munis but still.

Flamer halftrack could be scary, otherwise decent changes.




22 Apr 2016, 04:40 AM
#44
avatar of Kothre

Posts: 431


Personally I find the jackson somewhat needs it, since it has the lowest HP of all the TDs of it's class, firefly has the higher damage slightly,higher health pool and tulips, SU85 has self spotting but doesn't have a turret, apart from the higher rof the jackson has over the firefly(which is getting a rof buff) it doesn't offer much over the firefly apart from more mobility, but that's just my opinion.

Good points. I can agree with that.


You can put duel bars on the Captain if you wish. Yes you still have to buy the zooks for 80 muni (still cheaper then dual zooks from the weapon rack) but whatever this is better or not can be argued, LT probably be the better unit since it uses Rifles as the models while the Captain uses REs

The change just struck me as odd because it's seems so arbitrary and out of nowhere. When have bazookas on the captain been a balance problem? Up until this point, his anti-tank role has been the entire purpose of the unit. It's like back when shock troops used to have a PPSh upgrade, but Relic removed it and just increased the manpower cost because shock troops without PPSh's were basically just conscripts role-wise. I realize that it's not a one-to-one comparison because BARs and Bazookas can be equipped on anything and PPSh's can't, but still.

I'm not necessarily complaining about the change. I'm just wondering why the hell it's being made. Seems to me like it'll just make the captain have less of an intrinsic role.

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 04:22 AMRappy


You are full of praise for sideteching costs for OKW tech structures, yet you want the free double zooks for the captain when USF tech up.
What good is the battlegroup building without retreat or medics? At least the captain is an elite squad that can contribute to the war effort without any upgrades.


Apples and oranges, dude. See above. Don't try to be snarky thinking you pointed out some massive contradiction. The reason I'm fine with healing and medic upgrades (I could take or leave repairs being an updgrade) is because of how much of a game changer they are, in team games particularly.

Though I would like to clarify that I think medics should just come with the retreat point upgrade, then (maybe) increase the cost of that singular upgrade. Repair truck probably doesn't need a fuel cost just for repair units; I think a manpower-only upgrade would suffice.
22 Apr 2016, 04:44 AM
#45
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 04:40 AMKothre

The change just struck me as odd because it's seems so arbitrary and out of nowhere. When have bazookas on the captain been a balance problem? Up until this point, his anti-tank role has been the entire purpose of the unit. It's like back when shock troops used to have a PPSh upgrade, but Relic removed it and just increased the manpower cost because shock troops without PPSh's were basically just conscripts role-wise. I realize that it's not a one-to-one comparison because BARs and Bazookas can be equipped on anything and PPSh's can't, but still.

(Deleted)
22 Apr 2016, 04:45 AM
#46
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526



You know what really helps? Learning how to read:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/241299/april-27th-balance-preview-mod-release-notes#latest

:"Panzerfaust ability added which is unlocked after a truck is built. (Panzerfaust works just like the Grenadier Panzerfaust)"


I said the Volks faust is going to be only like Gren one, and not some super faust like mirageflas one... then you insult me and quote the EXACT thing I just said. Learn to read yourself.
22 Apr 2016, 04:46 AM
#47
avatar of Percieis

Posts: 55

Look, I don't like all of the changes myself, but can we not attack community members? Sure, it may seem like it's Miragefla's fault for all of these changes, but he only suggested them, relic was the one who chose which changes to implement. Now, I'm not suggesting attacking relic either, but instead just to focus on the ideas you don't like instead of the person who created them. I don't know, it just seems like the game could be a lot better if people focused more on what's broken instead of who broke it.
22 Apr 2016, 04:49 AM
#48
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

Look, I don't like all of the changes myself, but can we not attack community members? Sure, it may seem like it's Miragefla's fault for all of these changes, but he only suggested them, relic was the one who chose which changes to implement. Now, I'm not suggesting attacking relic either, but instead just to focus on the ideas you don't like instead of the person who created them. I don't know, it just seems like the game could be a lot better if people focused more on what's broken instead of who broke it.

Well, time to take this like a man and type "(Deleted)" on my posts before I get the ol' defamation of members or something like that. Well, now that I guess it's Relic's fault...

aaa
22 Apr 2016, 04:50 AM
#49
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1487

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2016, 19:44 PMspajn
anyone who is not even top200 1v1 should not bother posting tbh

Im top 200 with brits now, and this fac is not so good. Worst one most likely

This is disgrace for them when 2v4 heroes or users without playcard spread their shit. Its like some janitor will be teaching his boss how to run busines
22 Apr 2016, 05:02 AM
#50
avatar of Hitman5

Posts: 467

OKW = dead faction. It's pretty much an inferior version of Wehr with worse doctrines, worse AT gun and no panzerschreks. Just making it more braindead for allies with less options available for Axis. Allies are getting more diverse (USF mortar, penals viable) but Axis are getting nerfed into one faction.

Lelic
22 Apr 2016, 05:07 AM
#51
avatar of Wygrif

Posts: 278

Mortar for USF!
PPSHs for Penals!
Sandbags for Wher!
Faust for OKW!


Snare for Brits? Awww. . .
22 Apr 2016, 05:16 AM
#52
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 04:45 AMRappy


I said the Volks faust is going to be only like Gren one, and not some super faust like mirageflas one... then you insult me and quote the EXACT thing I just said. Learn to read yourself.


'Cough' :

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 04:19 AMRappy


My thoughts exactly.

Volks faust just like Gren one, that has no snare.


Your words.



In terms of the actual patch notes, I feel like the penals may be a bit too cost efficient with these changes, ditto for the T34/76. However, for penals, this can be offset by the lower map control due to the longer build time and need to tech for them, so I suppose that we will see. I also think that a panzerjaeger squad for OKW would not be amiss, to supplement their current AT options. 4-men with 2 schrecks like pgrens would probably be the best.
22 Apr 2016, 05:45 AM
#53
avatar of LuGer33

Posts: 174

Captain loss of free Bazookas probably because USF now has more soft counters to light armor, right? .50 cal w/ actual penetration and AP rounds, buffed 57 MM, and for later in the game, even the Jackson will be more survivable with better LOS.

I mean bottom line the Captain is going to be a shit unit without zooks because of squishy REs and only two Rifles w/ Rifles. Probably makes sense just to make sure you have 80 munitions ready to pop when the Captain hits the field.

I think that's a fair trade-off given the other buffs to USF AT.
22 Apr 2016, 05:49 AM
#54
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526


Your words.

On the twitch stream they said it doesn't snare. Not my words.
22 Apr 2016, 05:53 AM
#55
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

Look, I don't like all of the changes myself, but can we not attack community members? Sure, it may seem like it's Miragefla's fault for all of these changes, but he only suggested them, relic was the one who chose which changes to implement. Now, I'm not suggesting attacking relic either, but instead just to focus on the ideas you don't like instead of the person who created them. I don't know, it just seems like the game could be a lot better if people focused more on what's broken instead of who broke it.


What's the point of offering feedback and discussion when they're predominately listening to a couple of specific community members?

My opinion doesn't matter to Relic. Miragefla and players like Dusty who contribute to his mod does, which is why the thing is copied almost wholesale.

Most people seem to like it, so maybe it's the right move. I won't be playing the game anymore though.. I'm tired of Relic compromising on faction design and asymmetrical gameplay. USF didn't need a mortar, and giving them one has consequences. (grenade upgrade even less important, free smoke ability whereas usually USF has to pay munitions, gives USF a hard counter to all their early game weaknesses in general) OKW is in shambles ever since last October.

You know what'd be great? If instead of raising the fuel cost on everything OKW does if they just brought back old OKW and made small adjustments? The reason OKW was so unpopular before is because people didn't get how they worked. Mechanized had resource conversion because in order to pay for light vehicles you needed it. BHQ was all about supporting mass elite infantry and using jagdpanzer, volks and raketen as AT. Flak command was about giving you game finishing heavy tanks to complement mechanized, or obersoldaten/luchs for a mid game shock unit to complement BHQ.

But that didn't fit into the 4 infantry + light tank rush + medium tank spam metagame, so they loss the sturmtiger for PzIV and then we got the big OKW rework in October and now this shit. Now we get 4 volks + luchs + panzer IV metagame and all is well!


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 05:45 AMLuGer33
Captain loss of free Bazookas probably because USF now has more soft counters to light armor, right? .50 cal w/ actual penetration and AP rounds, buffed 57 MM, and for later in the game, even the Jackson will be more survivable with better LOS.

I mean bottom line the Captain is going to be a shit unit without zooks because of squishy REs and only two Rifles w/ Rifles. Probably makes sense just to make sure you have 80 munitions ready to pop when the Captain hits the field.


A smarter change would have been to have the captain start with only one bazooka and he'd have to buy the other one.



22 Apr 2016, 05:59 AM
#56
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

The only problem I can see with removing the Captain's free zooks is them not just removing the officers arriving for free too.
22 Apr 2016, 06:02 AM
#57
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

What is the point of even having the Captain without zooks? With only 2 rifles he isn't a good combat unit and "On Me!" simply isn't strong enough to justify the Captain over another rifle squad. If I had the choice I'd rather pay 100 muni to put two zooks on a rifle squad that can AT snare at vet1 and smoke/nade with a global upgrade than 80 muni on a Captain that can use "On Me!". Better solutions might be to have the captain come with 1 free zook but no extra zook upgrade similar to how the LT arrives with a BAR or to have the Captain arrive with a full compliment of rifles instead of RE so he is at least combat relevant.
22 Apr 2016, 06:11 AM
#58
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 06:02 AMCabreza
What is the point of even having the Captain without zooks? With only 2 rifles he isn't a good combat unit and "On Me!" simply isn't strong enough to justify the Captain over another rifle squad. If I had the choice I'd rather pay 100 muni to put two zooks on a rifle squad that can AT snare at vet1 and smoke/nade with a global upgrade than 80 muni on a Captain that can use "On Me!". Better solutions might be to have the captain come with 1 free zook but no extra zook upgrade similar to how the LT arrives with a BAR or to have the Captain arrive with a full compliment of rifles instead of RE so he is at least combat relevant.




A smarter change would have been to have the captain start with only one bazooka and he'd have to buy the other one.



presumably the captain can buy the bazooka without needing to buy the weapon rack upgrade. 80 munitions for two bazooka is also more cost effective than the usual 50 mu/zooks.

This allow the USF to partially bypass the weapon rack cost but not the munition cost.
22 Apr 2016, 06:16 AM
#59
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

wtf at those side tech costs you already pay for trucks thats enough and the actual tier costs are also high ..???? do usf have any penalty for free repair crew with each tank or soviets have extra durable team weapons and can act as arty peice then why the fuck okw gets screwed over.?? they dont eve nget caches mortar or sniper for fuck sake and every units is overpriced and get those 5 vet are just showpiece either you dont reach even vet 3 or the vet 5 units just get destoryed by allied vet 3 units......SO WHY THE FUCK IS OKW = much worse ostheer...???
22 Apr 2016, 06:17 AM
#60
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 06:02 AMCabreza
What is the point of even having the Captain without zooks? With only 2 rifles he isn't a good combat unit and "On Me!" simply isn't strong enough to justify the Captain over another rifle squad. If I had the choice I'd rather pay 100 muni to put two zooks on a rifle squad that can AT snare at vet1 and smoke/nade with a global upgrade than 80 muni on a Captain that can use "On Me!". Better solutions might be to have the captain come with 1 free zook but no extra zook upgrade similar to how the LT arrives with a BAR or to have the Captain arrive with a full compliment of rifles instead of RE so he is at least combat relevant.


still has the thompson +4 rifles, so thats not too shabby.

and he can become a makeshift ranger later; 1 zook 1 thompon and a bar :romeoHairDay:
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SHOUT IT OUT!

No ProfanityNumber of ShoutsRefresh Shout Box
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
Last Thursday, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
Last Thursday, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
Last Thursday, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
Last Thursday, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy :clap:
Last Thursday, 04:31 AM
Soheil: Coh2 still broken server ?
Last Tuesday, 18:27 PM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. :snfQuinn:.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Willy Pete: @Nickbn you didn't ask a question, and this is a chat box...
20 Mar 2025, 13:11 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: #RelicModdedEchoChamber
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
webdesign-muenchen-w: @Rosbone it is sick
14 Mar 2025, 22:09 PM
aerafield: @adamírcz aren't the first two disconnects free every day?
14 Mar 2025, 19:26 PM
Rosbone: It is so unlike Relic to punish its fans and community.
14 Mar 2025, 12:07 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: Just making mistake after mistake after mistake.
13 Mar 2025, 19:57 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: For a thing they could fix in minutes. Literally minutes.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: + 33% dmg rear hit was best deal ever.
12 Mar 2025, 04:00 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
theekvn: you rather go 76 to unity Whizbang 2.0 or go home.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: also US tier 4 is 145f and Sherman pen 140 nerf is too much.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: Whizbang lock behind CP, meanwhile stuka is techtree progress
12 Mar 2025, 03:51 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! :P
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Willy Pete: Cool you wanna lose your stock lategame arty too then?
06 Mar 2025, 03:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. :rofl:
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
04 Mar 2025, 02:53 AM
Soheil: Coh2 is dead , full of map hackers , and lelic knows that but ...
04 Mar 2025, 01:26 AM
aerafield: Oh how I missed the weird spam bots, welcome back :banana:
03 Mar 2025, 13:05 PM
situsgbo777: Platform game online terpercaya dengan berbagai pilihan permainan seru dan peluang menang besar. Nikmati pengalaman bermain terbaik hanya di GBO777
03 Mar 2025, 06:48 AM
OKSpitfire: @aerafield that does sound familiar
02 Mar 2025, 09:06 AM
aerafield: @Lady Xenarra :rofl:
02 Mar 2025, 01:45 AM
Lady Xenarra: Ah, the gren faust-replacing-rifles bug/exploit. :ph34r:
01 Mar 2025, 18:24 PM
aerafield: CoH3 high elo is truly the dumbest CoH experience that ever existed
01 Mar 2025, 17:25 PM
aerafield: @OKSpitfire tbh I find it quite challenging to get the Pershing in time, having to suffer through the CoH3 tickrate and this endless bullshit meta of massive blobs going back and forth to the forward heal truck
01 Mar 2025, 17:24 PM
OKSpitfire: Well... going to be seeing the Pershing a lot for a little while, that thing is a monster.
01 Mar 2025, 11:44 AM
NigelBallsworth: axis stuff is getting more meme by the second
28 Feb 2025, 23:32 PM
aerafield: Cloaked instapin MGs at 0cp. I wanna see no more crying about the Dingo while that shit is in the game :snfPeter:
28 Feb 2025, 20:38 PM
Willy Pete: And only on annihilation, and I have to let the AI live long enough...
28 Feb 2025, 02:04 AM

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