Soviet faction

If we exclude the names, the incendiary grenades Volks get and the molotovs Conscripts get are exactly the same. They even have the same throwing animation so there's no doubt they're the same thing, yet you insist on the incendiary grenades being better.

On that point we should understand only 1 important thing - that person is fat-fat axis-troll. Or it is George Bush himself, cos only he could say such stupid thing, like: "They have same throwing animation", and "they are same" about molotovs and OKW flame grenades.

Seriously, play more in CoH and less watch ESL... If you think that flamenade and molotovs are same, then you play in some another game.

- And how many cost Merge and Hoorah ?

- At nades and faust does the same damage

How many cost Soviet first tiers ?

T1: 160 MP 10 Fuel
T2: 160 MP 20 Fuel

How many cost Okw first tiers ?

Medic truck: (100 MP - 15 fuel) + 200 MP 25 fuel = 300 MP 40 fuel
Mech truck: (100 MP - 15 fuel) + 200 MP 50 fuel = 300 MP 65 Fuel

Amazing, isnt it ? you can skip molotov generally, at nades are mandatory

Asymetrical things,

- You should really apply your advice for yourself, play instead of whining on balance forums, and you can learn a lot in pro gamer games, and you will notice that soviet is a good faction.
We dont even know if you played a single Coh2 game, playercard ?

You take ubber OKW with all free techs and units, and i play the bad soviets, and lets see who wins ?

Eh Mech truck = Sov T3 240/85

Battle group on is own is a better comparison.

Your last 2 points are blatant lies and proves that you know nothing about Axis units. If we exclude the names, the incendiary grenades Volks get and the molotovs Conscripts get are exactly the same. They even have the same throwing animation so there's no doubt they're the same thing, yet you insist on the incendiary grenades being better.

Incendiary grenades > Molotovs

Incendiary gets damage on impact and same DoT as molotov. Molotov only gets DoT and no impact damage. Animation times are also vastly different. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Your last 2 points are blatant lies and proves that you know nothing about Axis units. If we exclude the names, the incendiary grenades Volks get and the molotovs Conscripts get are exactly the same.

*snip*

Panzerfausts are also the exact same as AT grenades, but in your delusions panzerfausts are exceptionally better somehow.

M8, you are the one spouting blatant lies. Inc nades throw faster and don't require side teching. Panzerfausts have longer range and are available from the very start of the game. If you don't believe me look it up on coh2stats, it's a pretty neat website you should check out before you derail threads with your rambling shitposting.

I don't care about "who has bigger ranks", really. Your high rank doesn't show, that USSR is good faction and Maxim is good MG - it only shows, that you can spend enough forces to beat more powerfull faction enemies by weaker faction.

Again, when I say that "USSR is bad", I don't mean, that Axis beats USSR in 100%, so bad it is, of course no. It only means, that playing as USSR requiers from you way more micro, attention and another inner resourses to get win, while for Axis it's not such important.

And Maxim-spam tactic playing, I think, requiers from you a lot of micro. Way more, than for your enemy, which can rightly put MG-42 somewhere and forget about it. It will automaticly cover by fire large area, providing with large arc of fire to MG-42. Or, dig bunker and forget about it too - same auto-stopping your infantry. Less micro, less headache, less skills.

Main problem is - it's not so hard to play as axis, than as USSR. And that means that game is not balanced.

maybe you are juste bad at microing? Or you must panic too much as soviets.

Soviets have a lot of either useless or overnerfed units. Most of the faction's design is fine, it's just a bit 'outdated' when facing new factions. Most of the units desperately need balance attention because of this.

i think penals need AT nade

Inc nades throw faster and don't require side teching.

Incendiary grenades definitely have a farther range as well, I think by 5.

On that point we should understand only 1 important thing - that person is fat-fat axis-troll. Or it is George Bush himself, cos only he could say such stupid thing, like: "They have same throwing animation", and "they are same" about molotovs and OKW flame grenades.

One thing you should understand is that you're arguing semantics. Molotovs and Incendiary are essentially the same except Molotovs are cheaper in the long run, and works like an investment if you will.

Let's compare them actually. For 100 MP and 15 petrol, you get access to to 15 munition incendiary grenades which forces support weapon teams and other infantry to relocate, or lose a significant portion of their health or die.

Oberkommando Der West however pays around 30 munitions to throw a single incendiary grenade. Contrary to some people's belief, munitions aren't actually plentiful and you need to be smart when using munitions.

Volks can throw molotovs/incendiary grenades but at a large cost, since if you do decide to spend all your munitions on using molotovs, then you won't have enough for panzershreks to deal with light vehicles.

I'd personally want to take molotovs over incendiary grenades simply because you only have to invest 100 MP and 15 petrol, to get cheap anti-garrison/support team grenades.

When everything's said and done, they're both the same excluding the name. Molotovs are thus cheaper and better than incendiary grenades, but fanboys will argue otherwise and claim that molotovs are useless

Seriously, play more in CoH and less watch ESL... If you think that flamenade and molotovs are same, then you play in some another game.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197990448040

Don't worry, I have more hours than you in both CoH1 and CoH2. Unlike some posters here, I actually play the game and have been for a long time.

One thing you should understand is that you're arguing semantics. Molotovs and Incendiary are essentially the same except Molotovs are cheaper in the long run, and works like an investment if you will.

Let's compare them actually. For 100 MP and 15 petrol, you get access to to 15 munition incendiary grenades which forces support weapon teams and other infantry to relocate, or lose a significant portion of their health or die.

Oberkommando Der West however pays around 30 munitions to throw a single incendiary grenade. Contrary to some people's belief, munitions aren't actually plentiful and you need to be smart when using munitions.

Volks can throw molotovs/incendiary grenades but at a large cost, since if you do decide to spend all your munitions on using molotovs, then you won't have enough for panzershreks to deal with light vehicles.

I'd personally want to take molotovs over incendiary grenades simply because you only have to invest 100 MP and 15 petrol, to get cheap anti-garrison/support team grenades.

When everything's said and done, they're both the same excluding the name. Molotovs are thus cheaper and better than incendiary grenades, but fanboys will argue otherwise and claim that molotovs are useless



https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197990448040

Don't worry, I have more hours than you in both CoH1 and CoH2. Unlike some posters here, I actually play the game and have been for a long time.

Molitov and incendiary nade are the same rin the same way thatBrit at tommies snare is the same as the panzer Faust... Completely ignoring the fact that getting molitov costs almost as much as a Wehr scout car the actual performance is about what you would expect from 15 mu.. Its animation is long enough that an mg can pack up and its range is short enough it doesnt have to. Compared to the incendiary nade where you can toss it in half a second, it will deal damage as it his and it can be thrown from farther away the molitov is GREATLY out classed.

The reason the volks nade is a better investment is because it works. 95% of the throws will connect vs an mg (even a maxim) additional problems with the molotov are the higher than normal target size om cons, the better supression on the mg42 amd incremental accuracy/aoe supression which punishes bigger squads harder. Its basicly the same thing as giving allies more AI vs axis smaller squads (or higher armour values vs garbage pen for axis) Its overkill.

Kinda like having cheap nades on a faction that has nothing else to spend muni on.... (as in the price of the moli doesn't matter, it could cost 45mu and the soviet would STILL float)

Also if you think volks nade and moli are the same in all but name shows you are delusional
Longer range and faster throw are incredibly noticeable differences, then the impact damage to boot...

For someone who plays as much as you you think you would notice these things...

When everything's said and done, they're both the same excluding the name. Molotovs are thus cheaper and better than incendiary grenades, but fanboys will argue otherwise and claim that molotovs are useless

Are you trolling? They aren't the same. You seem to be ignoring the difference in range, alpha damage and throw time, key variables which have a big impact on their usefulness. Sure, they both serve the same purpose as an anti garrison tool, but unlike molotovs inc nades can also win engagements against rifle infantry squads because they are harder to dodge and deal more alpha damage. When was the last time you saw a volks squad take any significant damage from a molotov?

Anyway this is stupid, you clearly don't care about the facts and just want to argue for the sake of it.

Molitov and incendiary nade are the same rin the same way thatBrit at tommies snare is the same as the panzer Faust... Completely ignoring the fact that getting molitov costs almost as much as a Wehr scout car

Essentially the same then

Molotovs almost cost as much as a Scout Car but not quite there, squire.

the actual performance is about what you would expect from 15 mu.. Its animation is long enough that an mg can pack up and its range is short enough it doesnt have to. Compared to the incendiary nade where you can toss it in half a second, it will deal damage as it his and it can be thrown from farther away the molitov is GREATLY out classed.

Spending 15 munitions for force an MG team to relocate is a damned good deal to me. It's even better if you're able to force a retreat via the Conscript squad that forced to pack up or another flanking squad.

The Volks Incendiary grenade on the other hand, you have to pay a hefty 30-40 munitions which is about half the cost of a panzershrek, so you can't be throwing them sparingly unless you don't want any panzershreks for some reason. If you're paying more munitions for the damage on impact, and if the enemy dodges it, it almost a waste of munitions.

Honestly, I don't see why communist fanboys insist on the Molotov being bad. Flanking, forcing MG and support weapon teams to relocate and/or retreat is important in engagements. If you're able to force an MG team to pack up and potentially force retreat it, that's 15 munitions well spent.

The reason the volks nade is a better investment is because it works.

Except it's not an investment, it's a straight up pay out via a large sum of munitions. Molotovs can be considered an investment because you're spending 100 MP and 15 petrol to get access to much cheaper anti garrison and support team grenades.

95% of the throws will connect vs an mg (even a maxim)

Vs players who can't micro perhaps. I've played my fair share of the Allied factions(British Army mainly) and the only times a Volks grenade has landed on one of my MG teams or Infantry Sections is when I was trying to micro squads in 4 different skirmishes.

If I see a Volks that's within grenade throwing distance on a flank, I retreat my MG team; if the Volks charge infront of my Vickers or Maxim, I take a burst then retreat.

additional problems with the molotov are the higher than normal target size om cons, the better supression on the mg42 amd incremental accuracy/aoe supression

So one of the reasons why Molotovs and Conscripts are bad is because of MG42 suppression? Usually, you want to flank an HMG team, and not run on front of it hoping to throw a grenade before it suppresses you

The very fact that you reference MG42 suppression as a reason why molotovs/conscripts aren't good is enough reason to discredit your claims. Suppression only matters if you're in front of the MG team; if you flank it from the sides ot the back, then the suppression won't affect the Conscripts

which punishes bigger squads harder. Its basicly the same thing as giving allies more AI vs axis smaller squads (or higher armour values vs garbage pen for axis) Its overkill.

I guess that's why a lot of communist faction fanboys want even more anti infantry for the their faction

Kinda like having cheap nades on a faction that has nothing else to spend muni on.... (as in the price of the moli doesn't matter, it could cost 45mu and the soviet would STILL float)

If you're floating munitions then you're not spending it on mines, doctrinal upgrades, vet abilities and etc.

Also if you think volks nade and moli are the same in all but name shows you are delusional
Longer range and faster throw are incredibly noticeable differences, then the impact damage to boot...

They function the same, the only differences is in cost which the Molotov is better in.

For someone who plays as much as you you think you would notice these things...

If you question my credentials, I'll gladly 1v1 you and we'll see who's more qualified to talk about balance. I'll play my British Army and you can play as the OP Axis

Just an FYI to everyone here: Molo and incen nade damage is exactly the same.
They both have same DOT aswell as same impact damage.

Difference is throw time, range and cost.

Proceed.

Just an FYI to everyone here: Molo and incen nade damage is exactly the same.
They both have same DOT aswell as same impact damage.

Difference is throw time, range and cost.

Proceed.

Impact damage is same...
Oh, wait there is no impact damage on Molotov.

I just hate how you have to waste an enginner to go back and build your base, its not roboticed like the new nones

Soviets can be good enougth to play against other factions specially in 1vs1 if you play in a really specific way and thats the problem, they have the biggest amout of useles units, vet abilities, commanders. and in some cases they are strigth worst, like in air abilities with the suply drops or the il2 strafes, or the ninja buf of the stuka.

Dont agree? lets see.

Flares, button, m42, kv1, kv2, shermanC (comes at cp10!), cap territory, all tier1, tier 4 not prepared for late game, hit the dirt, il2 atack and specially il2 single strafe, rapid conscripation, b4, the balanced katyusha (so balanced that its worst than every single roket artillery in the game) not upgradeable conscripts, granade side costs, ultra long animations for granades and penal charges.
And those are the worst ofenders a lot of units and abilities are in need of small adjustments.

The M4C sherman is not bad lol

Its totally fine at 10CPs

The M4C sherman is not bad lol

Its totally fine at 10CPs

Just like 10CPs Command Panther

thats the problem, they have the biggest amout of useles units

This is what I think is the crucial problem. I don't play Soviets much but when I do play them or play against them, I notice how whenever somebody uses anything but the meta 'cheese', they lose or have huge problems. Some people manage to pull some good shit off with units like Katyusha or T-34/76, but those are really rare instances. Ofc I played a match against Luvnest once and he demolished me with nothing but Conscripts but that's for you.


I always see the same shit, it's like Soviet was designed to be cheese or spam or bacon or however you wanna name it. KV-8 + Pakwall, Maxim Spam and 1 penal in Scoutcar are all good tactics that come into my mind right now for the Soviets. They are just so insanely limited.

The M4C sherman is not bad lol

Its totally fine at 10CPs

Always want to ask -Why M4C? In soviet documents it's called or M4 Средний (Translated M4 Medium) or like in US army (M4A2, M4A2 (76) W and etc.).
C for Советский (Soviet in Russian) or Cheap or something else?
P.S. Sorry for little offtopic, i don't want to make another thread about incorrect names of USSR tanks in game.