Why has the soviet faction consistently been the worst?
Let's talk about non-doctrinal units.
It has no tank to speak of, the infantry is terrible BUT drains your manpower, it has no non-doctrinal weapons, the snipers are made of paper, katyusha has no AOE, the teching is expensive for the value, all these things, why?
And yet every patch there is nothing done to address this. Why? How hard is it to fix this faction?
Soviet faction
17 Mar 2016, 00:52 AM
#1
Posts: 168
Of coursh
17 Mar 2016, 05:14 AM
#2
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
Soviet forgotten and buried, Relic focused on Western allies.
17 Mar 2016, 05:22 AM
#3
Posts: 673
USSR in CoH 2 suppoused to be like USF in vCoH. And if USF in vCoH were great, than USSR here is pretty poor, because they refused of a lot of good ideas.
Relic, "steal" from yourself those ideas (like not-cheap upgrade for core infantry - 2 LMGs to everyone, or gun-upgrade for core tank or... a lot of good things were there), please! You have a lot of good balancing ideas already, you just need to see and use them.
Relic, "steal" from yourself those ideas (like not-cheap upgrade for core infantry - 2 LMGs to everyone, or gun-upgrade for core tank or... a lot of good things were there), please! You have a lot of good balancing ideas already, you just need to see and use them.
17 Mar 2016, 06:47 AM
#4
Posts: 1163
This thread is fail. Soviets are one of the best armys they are capable of heaping the pressure on early and keeping it on for quite a while if you play right.
But then they have heavy late game tanks, the best available to allies.
120mm is some of the best indirect fire in the game (comes early too).
But then they have heavy late game tanks, the best available to allies.
120mm is some of the best indirect fire in the game (comes early too).
17 Mar 2016, 07:03 AM
#5
Posts: 673
This thread is fail. Soviets are one of the best armys they are capable of heaping the pressure on early and keeping it on for quite a while if you play right.
But then they have heavy late game tanks, the best available to allies.
120mm is some of the best indirect fire in the game (comes early too).
One of the best armys with worst core infantry, worst stock middle tank, worst infantry AT (PTRS) and without weapons for core-infantry at all (only with doctrines again), which is also doctrinal and with all usefull units ONLY in doctrines.
USSR also has no fortifications at all, their heavy tanks are best of allies, but way worse than Axis's heavy...
USSR one real thing, which cripples it hard - doctrines addiction. All other factions can play even without doctrines, cos their stock units (mostly) are fine, specially OKW. USSR has worst stock units in their types - only Katyusha is good rocket artillery and maybe SU-76 is cheap and effective tank-puncher without HP and armor. All other units are trashy-trash, which worse then their analogs in allie's armies, and, that is worst - axis's armies.
USSR needs serious revision of it's game mechanic. "Faction of cheap+ineffective troops with more or less good units, but only in doctrines" - bad idea at all. It could work in vCoH with USF, which had pretty same scheme, but there were only 3 doctrines and each was super-cool. For USSR we have only few (maybe same 3) working doctrines, but even they are not enough powerfull to drag USSR out of swamp with cheap-bad stock units.
17 Mar 2016, 07:03 AM
#6
Posts: 673
One of the best armys with worst core infantry, worst stock middle tank, worst infantry AT (PTRS) and without weapons for core-infantry at all (only with doctrines again), which is also doctrinal and with all usefull units ONLY in doctrines.
USSR also has no fortifications at all, their heavy tanks are best of allies, but way worse than Axis's heavy...
USSR have one real thing, which cripples it hard - doctrines addiction. All other factions can play even without doctrines, cos their stock units (mostly) are fine, specially OKW. USSR has worst stock units in their types - only Katyusha is good rocket artillery and maybe SU-76 is cheap and effective tank-puncher without HP and armor. All other units are trashy-trash, which worse then their analogs in allie's armies, and, that is worst - axis's armies.
USSR needs serious revision of it's game mechanic. "Faction of cheap+ineffective troops with more or less good units, but only in doctrines" - bad idea at all. It could work in vCoH with USF, which had pretty same scheme, but there were only 3 doctrines and each was super-cool. For USSR we have only few (maybe same 3) working doctrines, but even they are not enough powerfull to drag USSR out of swamp with cheap-bad stock units.
17 Mar 2016, 07:22 AM
#7
Posts: 40
IMO
Because Axis must steamroll, Allies must suffer. Srsly, when i play Ostheer and especially OKW, i can play with only one hand, barely using my brain at all. MG's with wide arc, tanks with great armor, speed and gun, AT guns which penetrate everything Allies have, best handheld AT weapon on mainline infantry, durable sniper with great stun ability and Predator cloak, and more and more...
Allies just requires a lot more micro than Axis.
All Allies abilities which can irritate Axis player, was nerfed to ground (For example, just compare Ju-87 AT run with P-47 Rocket Run). ISU-152 can wipe squads from fog of war? Okay, let's nerf it. Sturmtiger can wipe MULTIPLE squads from fog of war? Working as intented, l2p, smoke and flank. Katyusha barely wipes a gun crew? Nerf it to the ground. Panzerwerfer and Walking Stuka wipes guncrews even with gun itself, and Pwerfer's salvo pins infantry? "Axis need antiblob tools, everything is ok".
Yeah, this is sounds like bait, but it is still my opinion after countless hours in vCOH and COH2 since 2010.
Because Axis must steamroll, Allies must suffer. Srsly, when i play Ostheer and especially OKW, i can play with only one hand, barely using my brain at all. MG's with wide arc, tanks with great armor, speed and gun, AT guns which penetrate everything Allies have, best handheld AT weapon on mainline infantry, durable sniper with great stun ability and Predator cloak, and more and more...
Allies just requires a lot more micro than Axis.
All Allies abilities which can irritate Axis player, was nerfed to ground (For example, just compare Ju-87 AT run with P-47 Rocket Run). ISU-152 can wipe squads from fog of war? Okay, let's nerf it. Sturmtiger can wipe MULTIPLE squads from fog of war? Working as intented, l2p, smoke and flank. Katyusha barely wipes a gun crew? Nerf it to the ground. Panzerwerfer and Walking Stuka wipes guncrews even with gun itself, and Pwerfer's salvo pins infantry? "Axis need antiblob tools, everything is ok".
Yeah, this is sounds like bait, but it is still my opinion after countless hours in vCOH and COH2 since 2010.
17 Mar 2016, 07:37 AM
#8
2 
Posts: 66
This post is fail and it's more of l2p issue if anything. Soviets are not weak and have not been weak for sometime.
You have access to a wide variety of options as soviets and have the best combined arms in the game to deal with axis.
You have access to two types of grenades, two types of mines and multiple types of armour and to back this up you have mgs, mortars and at guns.
Sorry but if you think they are weak you need to assess how you are playing.
You have access to a wide variety of options as soviets and have the best combined arms in the game to deal with axis.
You have access to two types of grenades, two types of mines and multiple types of armour and to back this up you have mgs, mortars and at guns.
Sorry but if you think they are weak you need to assess how you are playing.
17 Mar 2016, 07:38 AM
#9
Posts: 673
IMO
Because Axis must steamroll, Allies must suffer. Srsly, when i play Ostheer and especially OKW, i can play with only one hand, barely using my brain at all. MG's with wide arc, tanks with great armor, speed and gun, AT guns which penetrate everything Allies have, best handheld AT weapon on mainline infantry, durable sniper with great stun ability and Predator cloak, and more and more...
Allies just requires a lot more micro than Axis.
All Allies abilities which can irritate Axis player, was nerfed to ground (For example, just compare Ju-87 AT run with P-47 Rocket Run). ISU-152 can wipe squads from fog of war? Okay, let's nerf it. Sturmtiger can wipe MULTIPLE squads from fog of war? Working as intented, l2p, smoke and flank. Katyusha barely wipes a gun crew? Nerf it to the ground. Panzerwerfer and Walking Stuka wipes guncrews even with gun itself, and Pwerfer's salvo pins infantry? "Axis need antiblob tools, everything is ok".
Yeah, this is sounds like bait, but it is still my opinion after countless hours in vCOH and COH2 since 2010.
+ 1945 actually. Just what I think - everything best for axis, everything worst for allies. Best tanks - axis, best air - axis, best infantry - axis. At least artillery is not their best, because they don't have so much.
And yes - it's so relaxing to play as axis. And so mindbreaking to play as allies.
17 Mar 2016, 07:45 AM
#10
Posts: 673
This post is fail and it's more of l2p issue if anything. Soviets are not weak and have not been weak for sometime.
You have access to a wide variety of options as soviets and have the best combined arms in the game to deal with axis.
You have access to two types of grenades, two types of mines and multiple types of armour and to back this up you have mgs, mortars and at guns.
Sorry but if you think they are weak you need to assess how you are playing.
Wide variety? Yea, build loosy T1 or build more or less good T2, then spam maxim to survive... Not so much options for USSR to play and win, actually.
Two type of grenades? Ha-ha, two types of worst grenades in game, which we should also pay for, and pay a lot! Molotov is worse than any nade in game - slow throwing, no impact damage (OKW's flame nade for expample has impact damage)... And AT-nade is way worse (look at stats), than free Fausts.
Two types of mines? One type of sweeper dealing with them really good.
Multiple types of armour? Yea, worst midle tank in game T-34-76, AT tanks with melted tower, T-70, which is worse than some Axis light cars... Yea, a lot of options in vechicles. And of course - all good tanks only by doctrines.
And how is having of "MGs, mortars and AT guns" is benefit? Ostheers have same MGs, mortars and AT guns too, and they are better than soviet analogs, again. All those units are SUPPORT weapons, not core units. And with core USSR has serious troubles.
And it's easiest way to end any discussion by only 3 words - learn2play. Veeery reasonable, bro.
17 Mar 2016, 07:48 AM
#11
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
This post is fail and it's more of l2p issue if anything. Soviets are not weak and have not been weak for sometime.
You have access to a wide variety of options as soviets and have the best combined arms in the game to deal with axis.
You have access to two types of grenades, two types of mines and multiple types of armour and to back this up you have mgs, mortars and at guns.
Sorry but if you think they are weak you need to assess how you are playing.
I'm not saying that the Soviets were totally useless, I say that they have forgotten.
When correct useless units? Where are new to the Soviets? Or fix the crappy commanders (in fact - it is almost all the commanders)?
I've been playing since Soviets Beta (when 4 the ZIS-3 could not penetrate the Panther's side)
And I still playing Soviets, this is my favorite faction.
17 Mar 2016, 07:50 AM
#12
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Someone said the T-70 is bad despite the fact you get recon, mobility, the ability to murder infantry horribly, self-repair to eat another pak shot, and counter most light armour that isn't dedicated towards AT? Oh dear, someone hasn't been playing properly.
17 Mar 2016, 07:53 AM
#13
Posts: 17
This post is fail and it's more of l2p issue if anything. Soviets are not weak and have not been weak for sometime.
You have access to a wide variety of options as soviets and have the best combined arms in the game to deal with axis.
You have access to two types of grenades, two types of mines and multiple types of armour and to back this up you have mgs, mortars and at guns.
Sorry but if you think they are weak you need to assess how you are playing.
Witch is the second mine? Do you mean the allaround-mine+demo=killeverything-mine?
Also, I dont think soviet is bad, they are hard to play with if youre not a maxim-spammer-a-hole but if you know how to play with them they are great.
I play the majority of my games as soviet.
17 Mar 2016, 07:54 AM
#14
Posts: 673
Someone said the T-70 is bad despite the fact you get recon, mobility, the ability to murder infantry horribly, self-repair to eat another pak shot, and counter most light armour that isn't dedicated towards AT? Oh dear, someone hasn't been playing properly.
2 problems - 70 fuel and T3. Ostheer's 222 costs 3 times lesser (in fuel) and doing all same and also, coming from T2.
222 can into recon, mobile, murder infantry and support crews, self-repair is useless, cos it costs a lot of muni, 222 survives shots from ZiS and able to counter such vechiles like AEC, T-70, Stuart and SU-76.
Let T-70 cost 200 MP 30/40 Fuel and everything will be fine. Why so low? It's T3 unit with qualities of T2, so let it cost less.
17 Mar 2016, 07:58 AM
#15
Posts: 1163
Soviets are one of the easiest to play. You can play them like vcoh USA, spread out, try to cap the whole map, then bring forces together from multiple flanks to overwhelm the concentrated german forces.. I find that a lot easier to execute than playing as Ost.
It does depend heavily on what game mode you are playing, and at what level.
Anything above rank 500, and soviets are deadly.
It does depend heavily on what game mode you are playing, and at what level.
Anything above rank 500, and soviets are deadly.
17 Mar 2016, 07:58 AM
#16
Posts: 17
Someone said the T-70 is bad despite the fact you get recon, mobility, the ability to murder infantry horribly, self-repair to eat another pak shot, and counter most light armour that isn't dedicated towards AT? Oh dear, someone hasn't been playing properly.
Everyone keeps saing the t-70 is great. However ive never been able to use it in a good way. Luchs,puma,222,stuart,aec everyone of those work great but never got the hang of t-70.
Any hints on that tank? How to use it, what does it counter?
17 Mar 2016, 08:04 AM
#17
Posts: 673
Everyone keeps saing the t-70 is great. However ive never been able to use it in a good way. Luchs,puma,222,stuart,aec everyone of those work great but never got the hang of t-70.
Any hints on that tank? How to use it, what does it counter?
It only counters your resourse pool and quiet condition of nerves.
It suppoused to be "light-vechile version of Ostwind". But, they both are bad in role of Anti-infantry tanks. Ostwind has poor gun and T-70 dying from schrecks or other AT's faster, than can reach shooting range.
T-70 is unit, which shouldn't be in T3. You just don't need in such late game such unit. Same goes for T-34-76 in T4.
But, however, you can use T-70 as recontank (with reconmod on), or, if you like to play risky - use T-70 as infantry wiper. But its really risky - schrecks dealing with T-70 really fast.
As recontank it is good, but it should cost veeery small then. As I said - 200 MP 30/40 fuel would be ok for tank with such qualities.
17 Mar 2016, 08:04 AM
#18
Posts: 1163
T-70 used to be real OP when tanks had accuracy on the move and it could ruthlessly wipe squads on retreat.
Ever since that change, Ive had less success with it, and found it more risky. But honestly, I put that down to poor user use. I know it can still have a lot of impact.
I tend to just choose Su75, and likely get 2. As you dont need more than one ZiS then, possibly even skipping ZiS altogether for the mid game. Its a more defensive unit with long range which clearly is easier to keep alive, and having the barrage ability is deadly for all kinds of situations
Ever since that change, Ive had less success with it, and found it more risky. But honestly, I put that down to poor user use. I know it can still have a lot of impact.
I tend to just choose Su75, and likely get 2. As you dont need more than one ZiS then, possibly even skipping ZiS altogether for the mid game. Its a more defensive unit with long range which clearly is easier to keep alive, and having the barrage ability is deadly for all kinds of situations
17 Mar 2016, 08:05 AM
#19
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Soviets are strong. They have the big advantage of 6-man squads that makes them very resistant to random wipes. They also, like Ostheer and to a lesser extent OKW, have an answer to pretty much every battlefield situation in their standard unit roster.
17 Mar 2016, 08:09 AM
#20
Posts: 673
Soviets are strong. They have the big advantage of 6-man squads that makes them very resistant to random wipes. They also, like Ostheer and to a lesser extent OKW, have an answer to pretty much every battlefield situation in their standard unit roster.
6 man squads can't make faction good. 6 man conscripts are worst infantry in game (only Osttrupens are worse maybe), 6 man penals are most useless infantry in game, 6 man maxim is worst MG in game...
6 man in squad gives you noting. Those 6 man in crews have less HP per each, than 4 man in other factions. So, it means, they dying same fast as others. In proportions - 4 man and 6 man crews have same HP and as result - same survivability.
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