UKF need non-doc AT Nade for new 222?

Yeah that would work.

I personally do like the idea of the Hawkins, either thrown or laid as a mine, as it is historically accurate. Wouldn't have to be super dooper powerful or do much if anything against infantry, just blow a wheel or damage a track for a nice crit.

The manpower and fuel for the Mills bomb is outrageous, especially given the manpower problems the Brits always have with their very expensive but only situationally powerful units. Merely adding another grenade type to the upgrade would be my preferred solution.

Whilst I completely agree with the Piat I think agreeing a consensus on a single change would be more useful than a wishlist which would likely be unbalancing. Piat ambush would be nice to have though the idea of having a squad to spare to use such an ability doesn't chime too well with my experience. With cover being essential and map control quite an issue spare squads tend to go to garrisons rather than snuck into random bits of cover. Engineers especially are used to close with and deal at close range and Piats can be surprisingly useful at close range against infantry. What is needed is a way to snare the currently unassailable diving and kiting Panthers which bounce everything but Piats.

Ye=ou have a cheap, mini panzer IV at your disposal, use it.

I can't "confirm" because I'm at work, but I know the Boys AT nade does 50 damage. So new health, 320 -50 = 270 270/320 health = 84% health.

I believe the threshold of damage for the snare to work is below 80, maybe even 75 or 70 percent, right? So it shouldn't snare.

Yeah I saw someone post something similar, but my faith in mechanics has been shaken as of late. I'd like to see it confirmed in game. Sadly I'm at work too

Ye=ou have a cheap, mini panzer IV at your disposal, use it.

with that logic Cons or penals should never be changed as we have maxims

Make sense please.

"Ye=ou have a cheap, mini panzer IV at your disposal, use it."

If only we did, the PIV has almost as much armour as our 'heavy' tank.... For reasons which noone seems able to explain.

Given that the PIV was considered to be underarmoured for almost the entire war and suffered grievous mechanical problems from the weight of it's inadequate armour the in game PIV is one of the strangest beasts, in terms of all round ability, I've encountered.

If UKF get an anti snare why can't OKW get a reliable snare as well? Nobody seemed to advocate this when the AEC was running rampant. Also adding an AT nade to UKF changes the entire dynamic on how you fight this faction

They would have AT snares, Comets, Fireflies, best AT gun in the game argueably, and a 17pounder non-doctrinal. Nobody has this combination. OKW have strong tanks, heavy tanks, but only doctrinal snares. Where as Soviets and OST have their own snares but they can't pump out tanks that are as crazy...

UKF should never get an AT Snare, if they are having problems specifically with the 222 then its the 222 that is the problem. Giving AT nades has a huge ripple effect. Focus this on the 222, not an overaching army change.

If mills bombs are too pricey, lower them but don't include an extra free name... SU pays for both as well. It's all about teching, timing, and reward for risk. Mills bombs are awesome grenades, but if you want it all its going to delay your first tank which UKF can do given they have AEC, Sniper, and AT guns.

I don't know what needs to be done to address the early light-vehicle as UKF. However, please don't ruin PIATs.

Given the qualities of UKF infantry (Tommies: suck at attacking, Sappers: Ultra-efficient, but short-range), PIATs are your only hope for an aggressive early game with this faction. (or would you like everybody to start spamming Mortar Pits/AECs instead?).

1. PIATs are currently ridiculously OP (even against moving targets) if you can afford to micro them (usually hurts your sniper play)
2. At the same time, autoattack seems to miss all the time; even against stationary targets.

Obviously, the two extremes should be brought together (e.g., by fixing #2 and nerfing SOMETHING - I don't know). However, that won't yield you a low-micro PIAT-based solution vs vehicles.

Once again, though. If you can't/don't want to use PIATs that's fine. Balance PIATs, but don't completely ruin their flavour for everybody else that uses them.

Piat attack ground = Broken/OP, but as some said microing needed for it to work well.

Brits have everything better than all other factions, they should not get snare grenades too, unless from a commander like tank hunter section. Buffing tank hunter at-grenade is valid option.

And just to keep coh2.org forums constant to all topics. L2P!

I am glad this is at least generating some discussion that isn't "L2P you fanboi". I just find that early Luchs and 222 are incredibly hard to play around as the Brits. It takes too long to get an AEC and rushing for an AT gun to counter an early 222 spam is really restricts the early capping as it is only good against the 222/Luchs(where as rushing for a 222/Luchs allows you to harass Vicker and Tommies we no free of reprisals to make up for the lack of infantry).

The thing with asymmetrical balance is that even the tiniest change on one unit can have rippling effects on the other factions and even on how a faction is played and perceived. For example right after the AEC buff people suddenly came up with a grocery list of OP units in the faction, that others were saying how UP the faction was before the change. I really feel that the mobility of the AEC actually changed how people played the Brits and opened up new strategies that persist even after its nerf(basically the buff encouraged people to play the faction and as they got practice they found the faction wasn't quite so "unplayable" as they first thought). This is a double edged sword however as certain weaknesses that might not have been so bad before are now being brought to the front. This is why I think the lack of a reliable AT Snare for Brits should be looked at now.

Edit: Well as I was typing this someone did post L2P.... Garden you Thamor.

If only we did, the PIV has almost as much armour as our 'heavy' tank.... For reasons which noone seems able to explain.

Given that the PIV was considered to be underarmoured for almost the entire war and suffered grievous mechanical problems from the weight of it's inadequate armour the in game PIV is one of the strangest beasts, in terms of all round ability, I've encountered.

Not to say that what PBR is true or sensible, but your post makes just as much sense and has contributed nothing to the discussion except for displaying what a fanboii you are

I've been trying and failing to find a way to play without the AEC since it's nerf and price increase. Lost a lot of games but learned a few things.

Uniquely the AEC allowed you to take ground which your forces were then capable of holding. Cromwells too but they arrived too late to turn the tide of the economic side of things and particularly against OKW you were always behind only to find yourself outmatched by the OKW endgame.

Hence it hasn't changed that much if you choose bofors or don't side tech at all. The caveat here is the handful of games I played where vet was working on Stalingrad, completely different game and Tommies seemed to be powerful enough with vet retained to make a real difference. Course the silly bugs did get in the way a bit.

Not sure where I'm going with this except to say that noone really knows anything about balance until we get working vet, however the complete lack of a snare is and always has been a glaring hole in the UKFs toolbox.

People who are suggesting AEC do know, that going for that locks out the Bofors emplacement? Same with asking for Doctrine solutions; basic gameplay mechanics should NOT be found as Doctrine-only or Exclusive.

PIATs should work similarly to Bazooka or Panzershreck, or like Panzerfaust. You should not have to attack-ground for them to operate normally.

I am glad this is at least generating some discussion that isn't "L2P you fanboi". I just find that early Luchs and 222 are incredibly hard to play around as the Brits. It takes too long to get an AEC and rushing for an AT gun to counter an early 222 spam is really restricts the early capping as it is only good against the 222/Luchs(where as rushing for a 222/Luchs allows you to harass Vicker and Tommies we no free of reprisals to make up for the lack of infantry).

This has been the struggle that ostheer players have tried to learn to deal with for ages.

I do agree though, Brits need a proper snare. I really liked the idea of button vehicle when your squad has a Bren gun like in CoH1. AT made in the grenade tech is a good idea IMO.

If UKF get an anti snare why can't OKW get a reliable snare as well?

Because OKW doesn't have issues with their only hard AT option early game getting circle-strafed to death like Brits do against 222 and Luchs.

Brits have cheap mines, arguably the best at-gun in the game, the sniper, and they still have the AEC that can shit all over scout cars. Doctrinal tank hunters are pretty decent, too.

But nobody builds AEC anymore now that we have simcity... Guess thats the one tradeoff you have to make but its not much of a deal because as soon as that bofors is up its recks any light vehicle stupid enough to show its face.

If UKF get an anti snare why can't OKW get a reliable snare as well? Nobody seemed to advocate this when the AEC was running rampant. Also adding an AT nade to UKF changes the entire dynamic on how you fight this faction

the schreck can hit moving vehicles. The PIAT cannot hit moving vehicle without some fancy attack ground command.

If UKF get an anti snare why can't OKW get a reliable snare as well? Nobody seemed to advocate this when the AEC was running rampant. Also adding an AT nade to UKF changes the entire dynamic on how you fight this faction

They would have AT snares, Comets, Fireflies, best AT gun in the game argueably, and a 17pounder non-doctrinal. Nobody has this combination. OKW have strong tanks, heavy tanks, but only doctrinal snares. Where as Soviets and OST have their own snares but they can't pump out tanks that are as crazy...

UKF should never get an AT Snare, if they are having problems specifically with the 222 then its the 222 that is the problem. Giving AT nades has a huge ripple effect. Focus this on the 222, not an overaching army change.

If mills bombs are too pricey, lower them but don't include an extra free name... SU pays for both as well. It's all about teching, timing, and reward for risk. Mills bombs are awesome grenades, but if you want it all its going to delay your first tank which UKF can do given they have AEC, Sniper, and AT guns.

OKW don't need a fucking snare. You have laser guided shreks

Piat Ambush from coh1.

Meh. You have to choose between aec and bofors. AEC comes early and deals with light vehicles. Bofors is very hard to kill early game, so your opponent needs to have some unit he can exploit in order to gain control over the rest of the map.