Useless unit list which need to be changed

"I think you need to share your playercard with me. I can't tell how many games of UKF you have played. You can see mine and I've played quite a bit. Go put a UC versus a garrisoned MG which is the reason why flamers are useful and tell me that it's not useful. "

Got about 400 hours on the Brits. I'll try the UC against garrisons ( again) though posting about anti-garrison and showing a video of it, very slowly, beating a Volkswagon Beetle doesn't make much sense to me.

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LeFH, Riegel

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OKW: Valiant assault (i've never been sure if it actually works)

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Sector Assault.

LeFH is actually quite decent at punishing emplacements. Well, until the Helms Deep commander drops in the game that is.

Riegel mines are also fast to place and have a 100% chance to immobilize the affected vehicle. Also, even if your engineers do spot them, they are very difficult for a player to actually spot them on the ground, due to their shape.

Valiant Assault is an amazing Volksblob enabler. That enemy tank thinks it can run away? Just press valiant assault and yolorush it with your Schrecks (make sure you have a minesweeper Sturm mixed in with your blob, though, so that you don't run over a democharge).

Sector Assault is also a very good sim-city counter.

USF at gun imo is too frail, weak, and muni dependent to effectively use outside of a scenario where you have the entire map, floating MP with a Sherman force and the enemy builds a heavy or something

Make price 320 and

Due to its frail nature make take aim a vet 0 ability, make vet 1 passive pen buff not as strong as the tungsten anmo

USF at gun

Forgot about this thing. Too expensive to build for light armour when you have zooks or stuart available, too weak to use against heavy tanks. Not an entirely useless unit but certainly highly situational.

Forgot about this thing. Too expensive to build for light armour when you have zooks or stuart available, too weak to use against heavy tanks. Not an entirely useless unit but certainly highly situational.

I intended to put this in the list, but I know some people will jump in, tell me it's fine and use Jackson instead.

People underrate the usf AT gun, it isn't that bad. Of course on 0 vet it is quite mediocre since you usually have to use tungsten shells. But its arc is much larger than any other stock AT guns like the pak. It also has the fastest ROF, aside from that the vet 1 ability which can be toggled on allows it to sight for itself, and considering its huge arc this is really good. Without vet its average, but with vet its pretty decent.

I'm gonna add my 5 cents worth by saying that the basic UC is fine considering the up coming fuel cost removal. Right in the beginning its rather useful against OKW for tackling Kubels, sturms and volks. Of course it completely falls away when a single AT weapon hits the field.

Its basic MG does enough damage that the enemy can't just ignore it and forcing him to deal with the UC, drawing the fire away from your IS or giving a Vickers a chance to setup.
Also I notice that most axis player are really eager to kill the UC which allows you to troll with it by constantly kiting and backing up. Better still is that the dps of UC basic gun is highest at long range, making it optimal at kiting.

However I do have a few gripes, which others have mentioned in the past:
1.) The really high muni cost for the upgrades. Vickers K upgrade adds very little extra dps and is only useful for its suppression ability.
The wasp upgrade does little damage to squads out of cover and is only really useful at anti-garrison which the Brits really lack. It forces the UC to move in closer and makes it a higher priority target, greatly increasing the risk it getting swatted or fausted.
The high cost and low performance is compounded by the very low survivability of UC, making both upgrades rather risky to get. I prefer to leave UC un-upgraded and turning it into a command vehicle later if i happen to go for the right commander.
2.) Not sure what it is about the UC but the pathing for this unit can be really screwy some times and often it ends up driving in reverse. It takes a life age to turn around and face the target which really does not aid the survivability. It basically requires an extra bit of micro just to ensure that the unit is facing the right direction.
3.) Its meant to fill the role of Brit sniper counter but it doesn't have the raw speed, dps and survivability to case down the sniper like its counter parts would. The same could be argued about the kubel but considering that Brits bleed the hardest with ost snipers, it feels like a UC has got its work cut out for it.

Can't help but feel that the UC suffers from trying to fill too many roles (scout, transport, suppression platform, anti garrison, sniper counter, bullet magnet, etc) and lacking the razor sharp focus which leaves it underperforming across the board.

I'm intrigued to see what will happen to the UC use with the removal of fuel cost.

LeFH is actually quite decent at punishing emplacements. Well, until the Helms Deep commander drops in the game that is.

Riegel mines are also fast to place and have a 100% chance to immobilize the affected vehicle. Also, even if your engineers do spot them, they are very difficult for a player to actually spot them on the ground, due to their shape.

Valiant Assault is an amazing Volksblob enabler. That enemy tank thinks it can run away? Just press valiant assault and yolorush it with your Schrecks (make sure you have a minesweeper Sturm mixed in with your blob, though, so that you don't run over a democharge).

Sector Assault is also a very good sim-city counter.

Riegel: completely useless against USF and requiring HT makes it really niche.

Valiant: that's more of a problem of Volks. I don't think the sprint is bad, rather than whenever i test the ability i don't see the accuracy been increased (maybe cheatmod problem?)

Sector assault: i'm not talking about Assault artillery. I'm talking about the ability from Overwatch. Really underwhelming for 250muni.

USF at gun imo is too frail, weak, and muni dependent to effectively use outside of a scenario where you have the entire map, floating MP with a Sherman force and the enemy builds a heavy or something

Make price 320 and

Due to its frail nature make take aim a vet 0 ability, make vet 1 passive pen buff not as strong as the tungsten anmo

That's because it's the only AT gun which has a crew with a 1.25 received accuracy. All other are at 1.0 or 0.85 for the rak.

A few that haven't been mentioned:

Assgrens have no scalability.
AssEngies need more durability.
120mm mortar's pop is too high at 13.
Greyhound

A few that haven't been mentioned:

Assgrens have no scalability.
AssEngies need more durability.
120mm mortar's pop is too high at 13.
Greyhound

AGs should just get much bigger bonuses from vet. AEs should get another man at vet 2 (and possibly require a retuning of the rest of their vet as well, because what's basically 25% more DPS, durability, repair and building speed is kind of a lot).

Give Greyhound the Stuart's main gun, adjust from there (might even be just fine from there, because the Greyhound is awful).

Shermans are too fragile and cp 10 in a time where panthers can be out at min 12 in team games seems not fine.

Kv1s are not fine at all, the main gun is rubish like the t34 one, they don't have enough armour to face the comon hig pen german units, and they have the same hp as a t34-85. they could add hull down and set the armour stats to churchill level with some slight AT/AI performance bufs

Dshk is fine yes, but nobody stays still to get killed, its good supresing but maxims at cp0 seem a better investment. In any case dead loops, spinning non teleporting mgs should be addressed.

Is 2 is fine but some better AT performance or less frequent misses could help the soviet late game.

t34/85 at t4 needs to happen if relic wants to make viable the big pile of useless soviet commanders. It's just an slightly upgraded P4 without blitzkrieg and smoke, I dont see the problem. soviets are crippled at late game anyways.

M3 is instantly hard countered by early AT options, it needs changes, whatever is needed to grant a role to this unit.

Roket artillery needs to be at similar levels once and for all.

M42 or maybe an static t70? AI static gun? just an idea.

I have tried many times to play 3 B4s being carried by my team and they were absolutely unable to make anything, maybe one direct hit per mach, and even a direct hit is not that powerful, maybe they could buf just a bit the AT capabilities nerfing a bit the AI and improving greatly the acuracity, right now the shots can fall a lot further than the aim reticle.

Agree with everything else

From my point of view there's nothing wrong with the su85, it's just extremely high micro-tax to keep alive and make use of, also after getting vet 2 it becomes a machine gun and is able to take down panthers with some infantry support

Maybe it comes a little too late and the cost-effectiveness isn't that great, dropping the cost to 300/100 would be fine imo

The point made about it having bad pen, it trades penetration for a greater rate of fire, this makes it a beast against PzIVs and other tanks without higher armor but still allows it to deal with heavier tanks.

(sarcasm) And Brummbär? It's the best unit in the game Kappa (/sarcasm)

I wouldnt have mentioned the Su85 here but now that it has been discussed a lot already:

For me in taxing 2v2 games there never seems to be the right time to transition from Su76 to Su85 since the fuel investment is so great (90 T4 + 120 Su85) and the performance margin is rather small sub vet3. Then at some point your AT capabilities suffer, but still with this insight you couldn't do any better next time. The Stug for example is situated between 76 and 85 but more cost efficient and still in the cheaper tier of the two..

People underrate the usf AT gun, it isn't that bad. Of course on 0 vet it is quite mediocre since you usually have to use tungsten shells. But its arc is much larger than any other stock AT guns like the pak. It also has the fastest ROF, aside from that the vet 1 ability which can be toggled on allows it to sight for itself, and considering its huge arc this is really good. Without vet its average, but with vet its pretty decent.

Good points, I guess my issues with the USF AT gun are:

1: By the time enemy light armour is out you are usually not far off a stuart which is a better counter, easier to keep alive and grants a few minutes of map control. By the time heavier tanks are out you are usually close to affording a Jackson or sherman variant. That's not to say that it doesn't have some use as a stopgap if your fuel income has been reduced but the price tag is high for something that often doesn't deliver much in the late game.

2: AT guns are generally better used defensively, but as USF you are more often on the offensive. While AT guns can certainly be used offensively it requires a lot of micro which means less micro keeping your flimsy American armour alive.

I wouldnt have mentioned the Su85 here but now that it has been discussed a lot already:

For me in taxing 2v2 games there never seems to be the right time to transition from Su76 to Su85 since the fuel investment is so great (90 T4 + 120 Su85) and the performance margin is rather small sub vet3. Then at some point your AT capabilities suffer, but still with this insight you couldn't do any better next time. The Stug for example is situated between 76 and 85 but more cost efficient and still in the cheaper tier of the two..

SU85 is pretty fine, I think it comes down more to the cost and timing of getting to t4 (which has been an issue since t3 became a requirement) and the lackluster other units in t4. With the t34/76 being crap and the Katyusha very hit and miss, rarely is it worth the extra expense of getting t4 and SU85 when you can just spam the more mobile and replaceable su76.

It seems SU85 is simular to Stug. SU85 has more weapon range and Focus sight ability. However if Stug manages to fire first then Stug beats SU85 in 1v1 battle. I tested it several times in cheat-mod.
Overall the only thing SU85 lacks is penetration.

Helm's deep commander isn't that hot. Please stop trying to blow it out of proportion.

One way to improve the the SU85 would be to give it a better defined role as a heavy tank killer. If the SU85 did 200 damage instead of 160 it would function similar to the Jackson and Firefly as a counter to panthers and other axis heavies. The effectiveness vs medium armor, however, would remain unchanged.

The two units I really rarely build are the T34/76 and SU85.

T34/76, by the time it hits the field is considered too mediocre at everything. It could have some more impact when properly combined with infantry if it came earlier.

The SU85 has lousy penetration which, considering its main targets are the Axis heavy tanks, is simply bad.

Overall the Soviet T4 is rather expensive and brings 3 units with serious shortcomings (even Katyusha has a rather high miss rate)

One way to improve the the SU85 would be to give it a better defined role as a heavy tank killer. If the SU85 did 200 damage instead of 160 it would function similar to the Jackson and Firefly as a counter to panthers and other axis heavies. The effectiveness vs medium armor, however, would remain unchanged.

You have the dirt cheap su76 for fighting mediums, if the su85 is getting any buff its ludicrous rof needs adjusted, basicly it needs the"Jackson treatment" where its potential dps goes down in favor of having a chance to actually deal some of the potential dps vs heavies. ATM a vetted su85 is over kill vs mediums and an rng shit show vs heavies (ive had 2 vetted ones fail to pen a tiger once while it pushed up and killed them amd ive had another lone unvetted one solo a tiger with ease, didnt even bounce) #esl #countersyoucancounton it needs to be ineffective vs mediums (so there remains a use for the su76 but scary for heavies.... Sort of like EVERY OTHER FACTIONS TD. ATM its definitely not worth teching up to and buying, hell I probably STILL wouldnt tech up if they gave me one for free when I did USF style....

... it needs to be ineffective vs mediums (so there remains a use for the su76 but scary for heavies.... Sort of like EVERY OTHER FACTIONS TD. ATM its definitely not worth teching up to and buying, hell I probably STILL wouldnt tech up if they gave me one for free when I did USF style....

What do you mean "ineffective vs mediums"?

Tell me one tank or tank-destroyer that can deal respectable damage to heavy tanks but its ineffective against medium tanks. Damage wise this just can't be.