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russian armor

OKW AA Truck

11 Jan 2016, 11:04 AM
#61
avatar of DAZ187

Posts: 466

OKW upgrades on trucks is a hold over from when they were resource limited. These bonuses were to help them maintain presence on the field because they would have fewer units than enemy. Currently too effective for cost.

In the next patch I fully expect all OKW trucks to lose their free upgrades and require direct tech to unlock.

Schwer is a poorly designed unit anyway since it completely negates infantry play, pulls a point out of contestion until at least one tank is around, gets to shoot down planes (again when OKW could potentially not afford to build a dedicated AA unit), and is a simple upgrade to all other factions tech structures.


This man knows what his talking about. best comment so far.

Lets not forget that ISGs camp around the t4. which allows no infantry to rush in for them.
11 Jan 2016, 11:09 AM
#62
avatar of DAZ187

Posts: 466

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 10:27 AMDomine



That is correct.
The cost of setting it up is immense, and you are seriously overblowing it's effectiveness on the field. It does not have brace, it does not outrange AT guns, and Sturmpios have the lowest repair speed out of all repair units. It does not require the combined arms approach of a Bofors, nor is it as cheap, nor does it wipe infantry in under a second. Get one tank destroyer, one AT gun or one indirect fire unit and start firing at it.


lol wait did u just say Sturms have the lowest repair speed???
11 Jan 2016, 11:35 AM
#63
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

I what my major has 1200 HP and AA gun on his helmet with supretion on top of it. So I would protect my side of the map of P2 AA halftrak Puma and blob.
11 Jan 2016, 11:37 AM
#64
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 11:09 AMDAZ187


lol wait did u just say Sturms have the lowest repair speed???



That is correct.
11 Jan 2016, 11:46 AM
#65
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 11:37 AMDomine



That is correct.


Then you should maybe play the game?

Only squad in game with even comparable rep speed to vetted spios are anvil 5 men REs.

Everything else have VASTLY lower repair speed then spios.

They used to be bugged, but were fixed.
11 Jan 2016, 12:00 PM
#66
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 11:46 AMKatitof


Then you should maybe play the game?

Only squad in game with even comparable rep speed to vetted spios are anvil 5 men REs.

Everything else have VASTLY lower repair speed then spios.

They used to be bugged, but were fixed.



Spios have 1.6 repair speed. Everyone else has 2. Exception is I think REs.
11 Jan 2016, 12:01 PM
#67
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 12:00 PMDomine



Spios have 1.6 repair speed. Everyone else has 2. Exception is I think REs.

Spios get +1 for sweepers and another +1 for vet2.

Do the math.
11 Jan 2016, 12:08 PM
#68
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 12:01 PMKatitof

Spios get +1 for sweepers and another +1 for vet2.

Do the math.



No they don't. They get +25% for each. This is getting ridiculous.
11 Jan 2016, 12:10 PM
#69
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

If you do the math, you get Kat's values (but for a few tidbits with commas, but I am unsure how the game rounds up values). Sigh.
11 Jan 2016, 14:21 PM
#70
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 12:01 PMKatitof

Spios get +1 for sweepers and another +1 for vet2.


Are you sure katitof? I've red that the vet2 or 3 for sturmpios is currently not working/bugged(25% faster build time etc.) and someone from relic posted, that the sweeper does not affect the repair speed anymore.

Ontopic:
A munition upgrade cost for the AA truck, does not hurt.
11 Jan 2016, 14:35 PM
#71
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Are you sure katitof? I've red that the vet2 or 3 for sturmpios is currently not working/bugged(25% faster build time etc.) and someone from relic posted, that the sweeper does not affect the repair speed anymore.

That post about sweeper also said its not intended for it to not provide bonus.

The not working vet part was in regards to build speed bonus, which should be broken now.

I don't consider bugs when talking about balance.

Relic also said they are considering side upgrades for OKW, so I'd just wait and see what happens after ESL.
But we should be mad when nothing happens for longer then 2 weeks after it ends.
11 Jan 2016, 15:25 PM
#72
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

All right, lets talk about the Schwerer. Other people have already pointed out why its a bit silly that it is free, but I am going to explain how it has such a huge impact in the game.

The Schwerer is a tech structure that also provides you with fairly reliable AA, fairly reliable light - medium AT, and amazing AI. It also costs no more to unlock than the T4 tech of other factions at 120 fuel.

First of all, it gives you access to a great combination of armor, which you would expect to see in an Ostheer T3.5 if such a thing existed. The best comparison would be the British final tier structure, which gives them access to medium armor, TDs, and a heavy medium for a small sidetech cost. OKW T4, of course, gives access to all units for no increased sidetech cost.

Second of all, it gives you an AMAZING area denial tool. The Schwerer gives you a fairly long range emplacement that can easily deal with all target types. This makes a Schwerer with a raketen nearby almost impossible to push without your entire army, and even then only after you have teched for armor or purchased multiple AT guns, which means that you have spent more resources to counter the Schwerer than your opponent as spent putting it up. Ad a forwar retreat point nearby, and you make a defensive position that literally cannot be pushed until you can get heavy indirect fire.

The fact that the Schwerer is so hard to push, allows the OKW player to concentrate on the other side of the map without worrying about harrassment. This means that his opponent cannot send harrassing units, and will be fighting a defensive battle until they can get a counter Schwerer force together.

For all these reasons, I believe that the Schwerer is definitely too powerful for the fact that it is free with tech, and needs to be changed.

I would propose a or two of the following:

-Add a side tech cost on OKW HQs which allows OKW to unlock the special benefits (should cost fuel).

-A flat increase in the tech cost of OKW HQs to compensate for their lack of side tech for upgrades (fuel)

-The Schwerer is now unable to shoot down aircraft and has less pen.

-The Schwerer has less vision, so that supporting infantry are required to make use of it's weapon.


This got lost in the mess and I think it deserves to be at least read.

Please stop the "Allied fanboi's too strong". This forum has both German and Allied fan boys and they both talk about units that are too effective.
11 Jan 2016, 15:30 PM
#73
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 13:19 PMDomine



Which is synonymous for 'I have no arguments anymore' just like saying 'X is free' is synonymous for saying either 'I have no clue about this game' or 'I don't like this faction and will take every opportunity to pull it into the dirt'


Playercard please.

I wonder if you've ever felt Allies' pain against them.
11 Jan 2016, 15:43 PM
#74
avatar of VenstreDjevel

Posts: 55

Would it actually be wise to introduce side teching into okw trucks, they will probably then have a more reduced price without thier "upgrades" and so we shall start seeing KTs getting rushed ridiculously in team games when one player can put all his trucks in base while carried then come out with a "5 min" kt or other such balls.

And proposing that there wont be a price drop will mean they will somehow have to work all of those potential costs in munitions only or with fuel at a stretch since okw only starts floating mp later in games to potentially have a cost on that resource....
11 Jan 2016, 16:01 PM
#75
avatar of tenid

Posts: 232

Considering that they're getting the benefits for not much more than other factions tech costs, I don't see why they'd have to be compensated for having it moved to side tech.
11 Jan 2016, 16:21 PM
#76
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Would it actually be wise to introduce side teching into okw trucks, they will probably then have a more reduced price without thier "upgrades" and so we shall start seeing KTs getting rushed ridiculously in team games when one player can put all his trucks in base while carried then come out with a "5 min" kt or other such balls.

And why would they have reduced price?
They have normal tech costs+FREE BONUSES COMPENSATION for hindrance that doesn't exist.
This is not new issue and relic considers it seriously atm.

And proposing that there wont be a price drop will mean they will somehow have to work all of those potential costs in munitions only or with fuel at a stretch since okw only starts floating mp later in games to potentially have a cost on that resource....

How do brits work?
How do USF work?
How do sovs work?
All of them have side costs and normal tech costs and yet somehow they all most of them work.

If something is OP, you NERF it, you do NOT COMPENSATE for NERFs, because that goes against the very definition of NERF.

Example:
OKW armor costs.
11 Jan 2016, 17:03 PM
#77
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526

Katitof, you are infuriating.

First of all you are rewriting history. Okw was heavily nerfed, THEN the resource penalty was eventually removed. Calling for a nerf because the resource penalty was buffed shows you don't know what you are talking about.

Secondly, the faction is designed to have bonuses with each truck. It is called a difference in design. It suffers in other ways to compensate. Ever seen an OKW non-doc mg? Ever seen a retreatable okw mortar? The list of differences (some superior and others inferior) to other factions goes on and on. Talk about area denial? Ever seen what allies can do around the central fuel in lierneux?

Why do you ignore what people say to you with regards suggestions of how to improve? Are you THAT ignorant?
11 Jan 2016, 22:26 PM
#78
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1096

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 17:03 PMRappy
Katitof, you are infuriating.

First of all you are rewriting history. Okw was heavily nerfed, THEN the resource penalty was eventually removed. Calling for a nerf because the resource penalty was buffed shows you don't know what you are talking about.

Secondly, the faction is designed to have bonuses with each truck. It is called a difference in design. It suffers in other ways to compensate. Ever seen an OKW non-doc mg? Ever seen a retreatable okw mortar? The list of differences (some superior and others inferior) to other factions goes on and on. Talk about area denial? Ever seen what allies can do around the central fuel in lierneux?

Why do you ignore what people say to you with regards suggestions of how to improve? Are you THAT ignorant?


Never known OKW to be considered a nerfed faction. I know people on this site had other opinions but....this is .org so that is to be expected to an extent.

On your second point, yes differences in design are good BUT when all those differences stack up in OKW's favour then change needs to be made. Side teching costs etc.....
11 Jan 2016, 23:17 PM
#79
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

I'd make it useless against aircrafts (unless it enters an AA mode) and drastically reduce its sight range. It shouldn't single-handedly lock down an entire area vs infantry and light vehicles. If you want to use the flak truck as a defense, you need a unit around it to spot. There, no more free area denial.
12 Jan 2016, 00:27 AM
#80
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 22:26 PMGrim


Never known OKW to be considered a nerfed faction. I know people on this site had other opinions but....this is .org so that is to be expected to an extent.

On your second point, yes differences in design are good BUT when all those differences stack up in OKW's favour then change needs to be made. Side teching costs etc.....


So you don't remember the Obers being nerfed in half. The KT and Panther being nerfed and the LeIG losing it's suppression? Well why not let the data have it's say then. Go to coh2chart.com and expand the date range as far as possible. You can clearly see what happened.

Most people agree balance is better now, relative to the earlier days, and especially compared to when the UKF was introduced.
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