Suggestions for a better soviet faction.
15 Dec 2015, 20:39 PM
#21
1 
Posts: 551
Cons need an lmg upgrade
16 Dec 2015, 01:10 AM
#22
Posts: 230
Permanently BannedThe soviets are plenty powerful. All that needs is buffing of crappy commanders.
16 Dec 2015, 01:24 AM
#23
Posts: 211
I just wish PPsH41s on Conscripts were non-doctrinal. Such an iconic weapon, was used quite a lot, also.. yet so underrepresented.
16 Dec 2015, 03:19 AM
#24
Posts: 247
The main area of adjustment needed with Sovs is in their tier 4. All 3 t4 units are currently pretty lackluster. The Katyusha is inferior to other factions' rocket artillery, although I don't support a major buff because there is already too much indirect as there is. The SU85 is doing alright although a little too expensive and fragile for its role. The t34/76 is performing fine at its current price but due to the time and resources needed to get to t4 comes too late to put significant pressure on the opponent.
I personally think that making the t34/85 non-doctrinal would fix a lot of the current issues. The t34/85 is strong enough to be used for flanking enemy armour where the 76 really isn't. It functions as the late-game workhorse without creating anything that is impossible for Axis to deal with. It would open up a lot of currently non-viable doctrines by removing the need to pick one with late-game armour.
Taking a look at the doctrines and finding a spot for the numerous useless units is something that can be handled once/if the bigger issues are fixed.
I personally think that making the t34/85 non-doctrinal would fix a lot of the current issues. The t34/85 is strong enough to be used for flanking enemy armour where the 76 really isn't. It functions as the late-game workhorse without creating anything that is impossible for Axis to deal with. It would open up a lot of currently non-viable doctrines by removing the need to pick one with late-game armour.
Taking a look at the doctrines and finding a spot for the numerous useless units is something that can be handled once/if the bigger issues are fixed.
18 Dec 2015, 18:55 PM
#25
Posts: 168
I absolutely agree with everything except the conscript DPs, it should be PPSH instead.
The Soviets have been limp-wristed for too long.
I mean, the SU-85 costs more fuel than a StuG but in a frontal fight, it loses?
Katyusha is so weak, and it fires in gaps, so half the salvo is wasted because the enemy runs away (panzerwerfer anyone?)
The Soviets have been limp-wristed for too long.
I mean, the SU-85 costs more fuel than a StuG but in a frontal fight, it loses?
Katyusha is so weak, and it fires in gaps, so half the salvo is wasted because the enemy runs away (panzerwerfer anyone?)
Of coursh
18 Dec 2015, 20:12 PM
#26
Posts: 609
I agree with a lot of these. Soviets are balanced, but their doctrinal versatility is terrible. Even if the only change was non-doc T34/85s, giving the Soviets a stock reliable late-game workhorse would make a lot more Soviet doctrines viable.
18 Dec 2015, 21:29 PM
#27
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Don't you dare touch rapid conscription.
Also Soviets are strong.
Penal troops are good enough for their cost.
Cons don't need DPs.
M3 is fine.
T34/76 is fine as a main battle tank; just needs slightly better machine guns.
Su85 is fine.
Hit the dirt indeed shitty and the B4 has too much scatter, those are about the only things I would change.
Also Soviets are strong.
Penal troops are good enough for their cost.
Cons don't need DPs.
M3 is fine.
T34/76 is fine as a main battle tank; just needs slightly better machine guns.
Su85 is fine.
Hit the dirt indeed shitty and the B4 has too much scatter, those are about the only things I would change.
18 Dec 2015, 22:19 PM
#28
Posts: 1653
Don't you dare touch rapid conscription.
Also Soviets are strong.
Penal troops are good enough for their cost.
Cons don't need DPs.
M3 is fine.
T34/76 is fine as a main battle tank; just needs slightly better machine guns.
Su85 is fine.
Hit the dirt indeed shitty and the B4 has too much scatter, those are about the only things I would change.
+1
18 Dec 2015, 22:47 PM
#29
Posts: 4928
I just wish PPsH41s on Conscripts were non-doctrinal. Such an iconic weapon, was used quite a lot, also.. yet so underrepresented.
I agree with this sentiment, the PPSh should be a non-doctrinal, possible universal (CoH 1 BAR style) upgrade. Profile updated so that it does not reduce damage below Mosin-Nagant level. Make G43-style SVT-40's upgrade to replace it in Doctrines.
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18 Dec 2015, 22:58 PM
#30
Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1
Don't you dare touch rapid conscription.
Also Soviets are strong.
Penal troops are good enough for their cost.
Cons don't need DPs.
M3 is fine.
T34/76 is fine as a main battle tank; just needs slightly better machine guns.
Su85 is fine.
Hit the dirt indeed shitty and the B4 has too much scatter, those are about the only things I would change.
Cost of the penals close to rifleman and IS (270 and 280), but their firepower and functionality much lower.
What about T4 (T-34 and SU-85)? I don't see the reason to build it. SU-76 is more cost effective and provides protection against all vechicles, except Elefant and Jagdtiger.
I find reason to build T4 only when T-34 be in a line with M4A3 and Cromwell and SU-85 will be in a line with M36 and Firefly.
Now i don't see reason to spend money on them. They are useless, their cheapness is not the argument.
19 Dec 2015, 09:36 AM
#31
Posts: 509 | Subs: 1
+1. I agree with you in everything. I think the way to go with soviets it's to give upgrades through teching. f.e. cons can pay muni for dp28 after teching t4 (and gettin' vet?)
Also crappy commanders need to be fixed asap.
Also crappy commanders need to be fixed asap.
19 Dec 2015, 10:13 AM
#32
1 
Posts: 311
They should fix:
(1) The commanders (for example in Counterattack Tactics commander change KV-1 to Tier 4, and place T-34/85 instead of it)
(2) Give KV-1 to Tier 4
(3) Give some weapon upgrade to penals in addition to the flamethrower. (SVT-40 sniper version or DP-28 or something else)
(1) The commanders (for example in Counterattack Tactics commander change KV-1 to Tier 4, and place T-34/85 instead of it)
(2) Give KV-1 to Tier 4
(3) Give some weapon upgrade to penals in addition to the flamethrower. (SVT-40 sniper version or DP-28 or something else)
19 Dec 2015, 13:33 PM
#33
Posts: 632 | Subs: 1
To the OP:
I agree that the Soviets have many units that just suck, but with all the buffs you proposed, they might be way too strong. If Relic decides to do something about this (which I hope) they should really take smaller steps, in my opinion.
DshK should be moved to 1 CP (like MG34) and maybe get a buff for the AP rounds, but otherwise I think it's fine.
M-42 needs a buff to its penetration for sure, but then it might actually be alright for 200MP. I could also imagine it as a stock unit in T1, to make that a little more viable. The two commanders that have it could get AT gun camouflage instead, it fits their defensive theme pretty well.
1x DP-28 for Conscripts sounds good (40-50 Munitions?), either to be unlocked in the HQ, or automatically with T3 or T4.
Penals could just be turned into an SMG squad with 6x PPSh, weaker than Shocks, of course, and without the flamer upgrade. That way you'd actually have two infantry squads with distinct roles without any call-in units.
The T-34/76 is bad, but it's also the cheapest medium tank by far. Buffing it could lead to some serious spam. Replacing Secure Mode sounds great, though.
The KV-1 could use more HP and better veterancy. I can imagine it as a stock unit in T4, it could soak up some damage while you attack with T-34s or SU-76s.
The SU-85 is not a bad TD, but it could use a slightly lower fuel cost. I think that both the StuG and JPIV are more cost effective, currently.
I'm not sure about the KV-2, I've never used it much. And the B-4 howitzer is just an RNG wipe machine, either it vaporizes a bunch of units at once or it doesn't hit anything at all. Making it more consistent without being OP is probably pretty hard, maybe they should just turn it into an ML-20 clone with slightly higher damage and AOE but lower ROF and less shots per salvo.
Other units, like the mortars, M3, IS-2 and T-34/85 are fine, I think. Not great, but alright. Relic can't just buff every single Soviet unit at once.
I also agree that many commanders are really bad at the moment, but other factions have this problem as well, and it's been like this for a long time. Expecting them all to be changed is probably not realistic.
I agree that the Soviets have many units that just suck, but with all the buffs you proposed, they might be way too strong. If Relic decides to do something about this (which I hope) they should really take smaller steps, in my opinion.
DshK should be moved to 1 CP (like MG34) and maybe get a buff for the AP rounds, but otherwise I think it's fine.
M-42 needs a buff to its penetration for sure, but then it might actually be alright for 200MP. I could also imagine it as a stock unit in T1, to make that a little more viable. The two commanders that have it could get AT gun camouflage instead, it fits their defensive theme pretty well.
1x DP-28 for Conscripts sounds good (40-50 Munitions?), either to be unlocked in the HQ, or automatically with T3 or T4.
Penals could just be turned into an SMG squad with 6x PPSh, weaker than Shocks, of course, and without the flamer upgrade. That way you'd actually have two infantry squads with distinct roles without any call-in units.
The T-34/76 is bad, but it's also the cheapest medium tank by far. Buffing it could lead to some serious spam. Replacing Secure Mode sounds great, though.
The KV-1 could use more HP and better veterancy. I can imagine it as a stock unit in T4, it could soak up some damage while you attack with T-34s or SU-76s.
The SU-85 is not a bad TD, but it could use a slightly lower fuel cost. I think that both the StuG and JPIV are more cost effective, currently.
I'm not sure about the KV-2, I've never used it much. And the B-4 howitzer is just an RNG wipe machine, either it vaporizes a bunch of units at once or it doesn't hit anything at all. Making it more consistent without being OP is probably pretty hard, maybe they should just turn it into an ML-20 clone with slightly higher damage and AOE but lower ROF and less shots per salvo.
Other units, like the mortars, M3, IS-2 and T-34/85 are fine, I think. Not great, but alright. Relic can't just buff every single Soviet unit at once.
I also agree that many commanders are really bad at the moment, but other factions have this problem as well, and it's been like this for a long time. Expecting them all to be changed is probably not realistic.
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21 Dec 2015, 22:58 PM
#34
Posts: 118
To the OP:
I agree that the Soviets have many units that just suck, but with all the buffs you proposed, they might be way too strong. If Relic decides to do something about this (which I hope) they should really take smaller steps, in my opinion.
Be aware i also ask for compensation in price and other stats.
DshK should be moved to 1 CP (like MG34) and maybe get a buff for the AP rounds, but otherwise I think it's fine.
The cp change could make a huge difference definitely
M-42 needs a buff to its penetration for sure, but then it might actually be alright for 200MP. I could also imagine it as a stock unit in T1, to make that a little more viable. The two commanders that have it could get AT gun camouflage instead, it fits their defensive theme pretty well.
It could work.
What do you think about my suggestion to improve the AI capabilities of this unit? t70 style but static and worst
1x DP-28 for Conscripts sounds good (40-50 Munitions?), either to be unlocked in the HQ, or automatically with T3 or T4.
Penals could just be turned into an SMG squad with 6x PPSh, weaker than Shocks, of course, and without the flamer upgrade. That way you'd actually have two infantry squads with distinct roles without any call-in units.
The T-34/76 is bad, but it's also the cheapest medium tank by far. Buffing it could lead to some serious spam. Replacing Secure Mode sounds great, though.
I include a price increase, if a tool is useless but it's extremely cheap it still useless.
The KV-1 could use more HP and better veterancy. I can imagine it as a stock unit in T4, it could soak up some damage while you attack with T-34s or SU-76s.
It's also lacking in the vet habiliti and AI AT performance.
The SU-85 is not a bad TD, but it could use a slightly lower fuel cost. I think that both the StuG and JPIV are more cost effective, currently.
I prefer to change it to a late game role to make the core units of the faction able to stand by itself with the different commanders.
I'm not sure about the KV-2, I've never used it much. And the B-4 howitzer is just an RNG wipe machine, either it vaporizes a bunch of units at once or it doesn't hit anything at all. Making it more consistent without being OP is probably pretty hard, maybe they should just turn it into an ML-20 clone with slightly higher damage and AOE but lower ROF and less shots per salvo.
Against it. it's the flavor of the unit, it needs to deal a good damage against armour but not so much against infantry with considerable less scatter.
Other units, like the mortars, M3, IS-2 and T-34/85 are fine, I think. Not great, but alright. Relic can't just buff every single Soviet unit at once.
They need slight adjustments, with perspective of the soviet faction and the rest of the factions.
I also agree that many commanders are really bad at the moment, but other factions have this problem as well, and it's been like this for a long time. Expecting them all to be changed is probably not realistic.
Im here since closed beta, im tired of playing the same 2 or 3 commander's, i'm aware of the non realistic expectations, but i want my finished game.
22 Dec 2015, 00:29 AM
#35
Posts: 301
Soviets currently a army with 0 late game. IS2 and ISU152 suck so hard and countered very easy. Infantry only good in mp bleed - i mean main DPS is start shining only in close range. But all axis infantry are long range DPS oriented. Infantry cost same or even more but lack surviving and DPS.
I don't understand the aproach to that faction - mp bleed plus high mp prices on upgrades and buildings with 0 abilities to inflict mp bleed in axis.
Offmaps - sucks SO hard, even IL-2 strafe was nerfed to the ground. For now only targets infantry (lol) but NOT able to kill even a model. This is kinda a balanced army? 180 ammo for ANTI infantry strafe with half a chance to kill a model or two.
Sometimes I get very frustrating then taking soviets. Looks like you trying to win with only sticks and shit against mgs, tanks, nukes, Hitlers super solders etc...
I don't understand the aproach to that faction - mp bleed plus high mp prices on upgrades and buildings with 0 abilities to inflict mp bleed in axis.
Offmaps - sucks SO hard, even IL-2 strafe was nerfed to the ground. For now only targets infantry (lol) but NOT able to kill even a model. This is kinda a balanced army? 180 ammo for ANTI infantry strafe with half a chance to kill a model or two.
Sometimes I get very frustrating then taking soviets. Looks like you trying to win with only sticks and shit against mgs, tanks, nukes, Hitlers super solders etc...
22 Dec 2015, 01:48 AM
#36
Posts: 307
Cheaper maxims.
22 Dec 2015, 02:08 AM
#37
Posts: 1891
Soviet T1 needs mild love, T4 needs very slight love. Overall very potent and fun faction.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
22 Dec 2015, 02:25 AM
#38
Posts: 556
Like some of your points, as it stands I like the
-DSK suggestion, in the sense of either make it worth (stat wise) the 2 co or if you drop 1cp a viable alternative to Max for alternate start (go t1 start)
-Scripts are cannon fodder, cheap and meant to die in droves, current performance reflects that and I wouldn't change HOWEVER, the nature of the faction revolves heavily around call in quality units, I would like to see A. Price decrease (240- 220 possibly 210) or a pop cap decrease to help with the MP bleed.
-Honestly the T-85 poor gun accuracy and rather long reload makes it a "okay tank" and true to its real life counter part that should be stock, but I rather see some kind of upgrade or at least a late tier standard "battle group".
-su 85 a pain as vanilla but amazing as it vet
- German moarters frequently wipe out my 5-6 man squads, we don't need that to occur for 4 man squads for ger so nay.
-B4 useless really but not a fan of one shot weapons so I say a slight scatter reduction.
-Script ability would be nice if they had some benefits to the unit, getting wipe out via the replenish squads isn't one of then, agree.
-DSK suggestion, in the sense of either make it worth (stat wise) the 2 co or if you drop 1cp a viable alternative to Max for alternate start (go t1 start)
-Scripts are cannon fodder, cheap and meant to die in droves, current performance reflects that and I wouldn't change HOWEVER, the nature of the faction revolves heavily around call in quality units, I would like to see A. Price decrease (240- 220 possibly 210) or a pop cap decrease to help with the MP bleed.
-Honestly the T-85 poor gun accuracy and rather long reload makes it a "okay tank" and true to its real life counter part that should be stock, but I rather see some kind of upgrade or at least a late tier standard "battle group".
-su 85 a pain as vanilla but amazing as it vet
- German moarters frequently wipe out my 5-6 man squads, we don't need that to occur for 4 man squads for ger so nay.
-B4 useless really but not a fan of one shot weapons so I say a slight scatter reduction.
-Script ability would be nice if they had some benefits to the unit, getting wipe out via the replenish squads isn't one of then, agree.
22 Dec 2015, 03:43 AM
#39
Posts: 851 | Subs: 1
-Scripts are cannon fodder, cheap and meant to die in droves, current performance reflects that and I wouldn't change HOWEVER, the nature of the faction revolves heavily around call in quality units, I would like to see A. Price decrease (240- 220 possibly 210) or a pop cap decrease to help with the MP bleed.
-su 85 a pain as vanilla but amazing as it vet
- German moarters frequently wipe out my 5-6 man squads, we don't need that to occur for 4 man squads for ger so nay.
A few things:
Agree on conscripts.
85 is fine as is - a little high on fuel cost tho
WTF you smoking regarding mortars??
I have raged so much against that fkn 120mm soviet.On 4 different accounts I've lost a KT/Tiger/Brumbar/Jaghtiger to a lucky shot that broke the ice from basically their base
22 Dec 2015, 04:14 AM
#40
Posts: 301
-Scripts are cannon fodder, cheap
No, they don't.
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