Suggestions for a better soviet faction.
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I personally think that making the t34/85 non-doctrinal would fix a lot of the current issues. The t34/85 is strong enough to be used for flanking enemy armour where the 76 really isn't. It functions as the late-game workhorse without creating anything that is impossible for Axis to deal with. It would open up a lot of currently non-viable doctrines by removing the need to pick one with late-game armour.
Taking a look at the doctrines and finding a spot for the numerous useless units is something that can be handled once/if the bigger issues are fixed.
Posts: 168
The Soviets have been limp-wristed for too long.
I mean, the SU-85 costs more fuel than a StuG but in a frontal fight, it loses?
Katyusha is so weak, and it fires in gaps, so half the salvo is wasted because the enemy runs away (panzerwerfer anyone?)
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Also Soviets are strong.
Penal troops are good enough for their cost.
Cons don't need DPs.
M3 is fine.
T34/76 is fine as a main battle tank; just needs slightly better machine guns.
Su85 is fine.
Hit the dirt indeed shitty and the B4 has too much scatter, those are about the only things I would change.
Posts: 1653
Don't you dare touch rapid conscription.
Also Soviets are strong.
Penal troops are good enough for their cost.
Cons don't need DPs.
M3 is fine.
T34/76 is fine as a main battle tank; just needs slightly better machine guns.
Su85 is fine.
Hit the dirt indeed shitty and the B4 has too much scatter, those are about the only things I would change.
+1
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I just wish PPsH41s on Conscripts were non-doctrinal. Such an iconic weapon, was used quite a lot, also.. yet so underrepresented.
I agree with this sentiment, the PPSh should be a non-doctrinal, possible universal (CoH 1 BAR style) upgrade. Profile updated so that it does not reduce damage below Mosin-Nagant level. Make G43-style SVT-40's upgrade to replace it in Doctrines.
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Don't you dare touch rapid conscription.
Also Soviets are strong.
Penal troops are good enough for their cost.
Cons don't need DPs.
M3 is fine.
T34/76 is fine as a main battle tank; just needs slightly better machine guns.
Su85 is fine.
Hit the dirt indeed shitty and the B4 has too much scatter, those are about the only things I would change.
Cost of the penals close to rifleman and IS (270 and 280), but their firepower and functionality much lower.
What about T4 (T-34 and SU-85)? I don't see the reason to build it. SU-76 is more cost effective and provides protection against all vechicles, except Elefant and Jagdtiger.
I find reason to build T4 only when T-34 be in a line with M4A3 and Cromwell and SU-85 will be in a line with M36 and Firefly.
Now i don't see reason to spend money on them. They are useless, their cheapness is not the argument.
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Also crappy commanders need to be fixed asap.
Posts: 311
(1) The commanders (for example in Counterattack Tactics commander change KV-1 to Tier 4, and place T-34/85 instead of it)
(2) Give KV-1 to Tier 4
(3) Give some weapon upgrade to penals in addition to the flamethrower. (SVT-40 sniper version or DP-28 or something else)
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I agree that the Soviets have many units that just suck, but with all the buffs you proposed, they might be way too strong. If Relic decides to do something about this (which I hope) they should really take smaller steps, in my opinion.
DshK should be moved to 1 CP (like MG34) and maybe get a buff for the AP rounds, but otherwise I think it's fine.
M-42 needs a buff to its penetration for sure, but then it might actually be alright for 200MP. I could also imagine it as a stock unit in T1, to make that a little more viable. The two commanders that have it could get AT gun camouflage instead, it fits their defensive theme pretty well.
1x DP-28 for Conscripts sounds good (40-50 Munitions?), either to be unlocked in the HQ, or automatically with T3 or T4.
Penals could just be turned into an SMG squad with 6x PPSh, weaker than Shocks, of course, and without the flamer upgrade. That way you'd actually have two infantry squads with distinct roles without any call-in units.
The T-34/76 is bad, but it's also the cheapest medium tank by far. Buffing it could lead to some serious spam. Replacing Secure Mode sounds great, though.
The KV-1 could use more HP and better veterancy. I can imagine it as a stock unit in T4, it could soak up some damage while you attack with T-34s or SU-76s.
The SU-85 is not a bad TD, but it could use a slightly lower fuel cost. I think that both the StuG and JPIV are more cost effective, currently.
I'm not sure about the KV-2, I've never used it much. And the B-4 howitzer is just an RNG wipe machine, either it vaporizes a bunch of units at once or it doesn't hit anything at all. Making it more consistent without being OP is probably pretty hard, maybe they should just turn it into an ML-20 clone with slightly higher damage and AOE but lower ROF and less shots per salvo.
Other units, like the mortars, M3, IS-2 and T-34/85 are fine, I think. Not great, but alright. Relic can't just buff every single Soviet unit at once.
I also agree that many commanders are really bad at the moment, but other factions have this problem as well, and it's been like this for a long time. Expecting them all to be changed is probably not realistic.
Posts: 118
To the OP:
I agree that the Soviets have many units that just suck, but with all the buffs you proposed, they might be way too strong. If Relic decides to do something about this (which I hope) they should really take smaller steps, in my opinion.
Be aware i also ask for compensation in price and other stats.
DshK should be moved to 1 CP (like MG34) and maybe get a buff for the AP rounds, but otherwise I think it's fine.
The cp change could make a huge difference definitely
M-42 needs a buff to its penetration for sure, but then it might actually be alright for 200MP. I could also imagine it as a stock unit in T1, to make that a little more viable. The two commanders that have it could get AT gun camouflage instead, it fits their defensive theme pretty well.
It could work.
What do you think about my suggestion to improve the AI capabilities of this unit? t70 style but static and worst
1x DP-28 for Conscripts sounds good (40-50 Munitions?), either to be unlocked in the HQ, or automatically with T3 or T4.
Penals could just be turned into an SMG squad with 6x PPSh, weaker than Shocks, of course, and without the flamer upgrade. That way you'd actually have two infantry squads with distinct roles without any call-in units.
The T-34/76 is bad, but it's also the cheapest medium tank by far. Buffing it could lead to some serious spam. Replacing Secure Mode sounds great, though.
I include a price increase, if a tool is useless but it's extremely cheap it still useless.
The KV-1 could use more HP and better veterancy. I can imagine it as a stock unit in T4, it could soak up some damage while you attack with T-34s or SU-76s.
It's also lacking in the vet habiliti and AI AT performance.
The SU-85 is not a bad TD, but it could use a slightly lower fuel cost. I think that both the StuG and JPIV are more cost effective, currently.
I prefer to change it to a late game role to make the core units of the faction able to stand by itself with the different commanders.
I'm not sure about the KV-2, I've never used it much. And the B-4 howitzer is just an RNG wipe machine, either it vaporizes a bunch of units at once or it doesn't hit anything at all. Making it more consistent without being OP is probably pretty hard, maybe they should just turn it into an ML-20 clone with slightly higher damage and AOE but lower ROF and less shots per salvo.
Against it. it's the flavor of the unit, it needs to deal a good damage against armour but not so much against infantry with considerable less scatter.
Other units, like the mortars, M3, IS-2 and T-34/85 are fine, I think. Not great, but alright. Relic can't just buff every single Soviet unit at once.
They need slight adjustments, with perspective of the soviet faction and the rest of the factions.
I also agree that many commanders are really bad at the moment, but other factions have this problem as well, and it's been like this for a long time. Expecting them all to be changed is probably not realistic.
Im here since closed beta, im tired of playing the same 2 or 3 commander's, i'm aware of the non realistic expectations, but i want my finished game.
Posts: 301
I don't understand the aproach to that faction - mp bleed plus high mp prices on upgrades and buildings with 0 abilities to inflict mp bleed in axis.
Offmaps - sucks SO hard, even IL-2 strafe was nerfed to the ground. For now only targets infantry (lol) but NOT able to kill even a model. This is kinda a balanced army? 180 ammo for ANTI infantry strafe with half a chance to kill a model or two.
Sometimes I get very frustrating then taking soviets. Looks like you trying to win with only sticks and shit against mgs, tanks, nukes, Hitlers super solders etc...
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-DSK suggestion, in the sense of either make it worth (stat wise) the 2 co or if you drop 1cp a viable alternative to Max for alternate start (go t1 start)
-Scripts are cannon fodder, cheap and meant to die in droves, current performance reflects that and I wouldn't change HOWEVER, the nature of the faction revolves heavily around call in quality units, I would like to see A. Price decrease (240- 220 possibly 210) or a pop cap decrease to help with the MP bleed.
-Honestly the T-85 poor gun accuracy and rather long reload makes it a "okay tank" and true to its real life counter part that should be stock, but I rather see some kind of upgrade or at least a late tier standard "battle group".
-su 85 a pain as vanilla but amazing as it vet
- German moarters frequently wipe out my 5-6 man squads, we don't need that to occur for 4 man squads for ger so nay.
-B4 useless really but not a fan of one shot weapons so I say a slight scatter reduction.
-Script ability would be nice if they had some benefits to the unit, getting wipe out via the replenish squads isn't one of then, agree.
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-Scripts are cannon fodder, cheap and meant to die in droves, current performance reflects that and I wouldn't change HOWEVER, the nature of the faction revolves heavily around call in quality units, I would like to see A. Price decrease (240- 220 possibly 210) or a pop cap decrease to help with the MP bleed.
-su 85 a pain as vanilla but amazing as it vet
- German moarters frequently wipe out my 5-6 man squads, we don't need that to occur for 4 man squads for ger so nay.
A few things:
Agree on conscripts.
85 is fine as is - a little high on fuel cost tho
WTF you smoking regarding mortars??
I have raged so much against that fkn 120mm soviet.On 4 different accounts I've lost a KT/Tiger/Brumbar/Jaghtiger to a lucky shot that broke the ice from basically their base
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-Scripts are cannon fodder, cheap
No, they don't.
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