Personally - I use Volks as "Hold the line" units and stalling units. They make good AT because they have so many models, their lategame AI sucking is perfectly fine with me.
No, don't give them MP44s... Volks, as the name suggests are meant to be relatively inexperienced troops, why should they get the best armament?
Really, I think the flak against Volks is misplaced - volks weren't ever designed to win an infantry fight. Thats what Obers, Fusileers and Falls are there for (except those units aren't really winning infantry fights, and as I have said before, thats the shortcoming OKW is facing).
Giving Volks MP44s and AT nades will turn them into better versions of Conscripts and I don't think this is a good idea, esp considering you do have non-doc elite AI infantry.
Unofficial OKW Redesign Thread
8 Nov 2015, 09:30 AM
#61
Posts: 928
Had fun doing this earlier
8 Nov 2015, 09:41 AM
#62
Posts: 571
Personally - I use Volks as "Hold the line" units and stalling units. They make good AT because they have so many models, their lategame AI sucking is perfectly fine with me.
No, don't give them MP44s... Volks, as the name suggests are meant to be relatively inexperienced troops, why should they get the best armament?
Really, I think the flak against Volks is misplaced - volks weren't ever designed to win an infantry fight. Thats what Obers, Fusileers and Falls are there for (except those units aren't really winning infantry fights, and as I have said before, thats the shortcoming OKW is facing).
Giving Volks MP44s and AT nades will turn them into better versions of Conscripts and I don't think this is a good idea, esp considering you do have non-doc elite AI infantry.
"The units also had a higher proportion of submachineguns and light automatic weapons and thus relied more on short-range firepower than in standard German Army infantry units. Automatic weapons like the new "wonder weapon" Sturmgewehr 44 and anti-tank weaponry like the single shot panzerfaust were also used by Volksgrenadier units."
It is a wikipedia quote, but yeah.
Tell me why the two-three weapons (apart from Kar-98) volksgren used the most is not used.
Namely
- MP-40
- MP-44
- Panzerfaust
8 Nov 2015, 09:54 AM
#63
Posts: 928
"The units also had a higher proportion of submachineguns and light automatic weapons and thus relied more on short-range firepower than in standard German Army infantry units. Automatic weapons like the new "wonder weapon" Sturmgewehr 44 and anti-tank weaponry like the single shot panzerfaust were also used by Volksgrenadier units."
It is a wikipedia quote, but yeah.
Tell me why the two-three weapons (apart from Kar-98) volksgren used the most is not used.
Namely
- MP-40
- MP-44
- Panzerfaust
I take that back, I didn't know that
But IMO the concept that you have weaker defensive lines like the Volksgrens in OKW still fits.
Had fun doing this earlier
8 Nov 2015, 10:42 AM
#64
Posts: 571
I take that back, I didn't know that
But IMO the concept that you have weaker defensive lines like the Volksgrens in OKW still fits.
And one more thing is, although volksgren were not "elite" so to speak, they were not "peasants with guns" either. This is particularly true for units with "unemployed" soldiers in the Luftwaffe or Kreigsmarine being dumped into the volksgren groups.
The real peasants with gun, untrained desperate German unit is Volksturm, which might as well be a partisan/ militia type thing.
Why volksgrenadiers are so worthless in-game continues to baffle me.
But meh, lets get back on topic for this thread, which is reworking OKW
8 Nov 2015, 11:06 AM
#65
Posts: 4928
Volksgrenadiers were meant to be the "reformed" German Army. Ideally they were to be armed with Sturmgewehrs and Panzerfausts backed by MG 42's. Essentially, a modern Infantry squad. While they did make use of the Sturmgewehr, in practice there weren't enough of those to go around and a lot of Volksgrenadiers ended up outfitted with MP 40's instead.
A Volksgrenadier Platoon consisted of 3 squads, one Rifle Squad and 2 Storm Squads. Rifle Squad was outfitted the same as a Grenadier Squad; 1 LMG, 1 SMG, 7 Rifles. Storm Squads on the other hand were armed entirely with Sturmgewehrs or MP 40's.
This has been your history lesson of the day
ostheer
A Volksgrenadier Platoon consisted of 3 squads, one Rifle Squad and 2 Storm Squads. Rifle Squad was outfitted the same as a Grenadier Squad; 1 LMG, 1 SMG, 7 Rifles. Storm Squads on the other hand were armed entirely with Sturmgewehrs or MP 40's.
This has been your history lesson of the day
ostheerall you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
8 Nov 2015, 11:24 AM
#66
Posts: 747 | Subs: 2
I don't understand why people want Volks to be stronger. They will get even more spamable by that.
Personally for me, there´s a big issue about how the OKW performs depending on the gamemode. The early medic HQ screws the allies in 3v3 and 4v4 and causes a big discrepancy between 4v4 and 1v1. Bringing the big teamgame strenght in line with smaller games should be done so buffs can be applied on the faction without screwing balance in certain gamemodes.
Personally for me, there´s a big issue about how the OKW performs depending on the gamemode. The early medic HQ screws the allies in 3v3 and 4v4 and causes a big discrepancy between 4v4 and 1v1. Bringing the big teamgame strenght in line with smaller games should be done so buffs can be applied on the faction without screwing balance in certain gamemodes.
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8 Nov 2015, 11:32 AM
#67
Posts: 341
kubel can cap flags
that would be awesome , it just needs to decrew and then the crew can cap, BUT ONLY IF KUBEL WAS THE STARTING UNIT FOR OKW AND NOT STURMS
8 Nov 2015, 12:36 PM
#68
Posts: 928
But meh, lets get back on topic for this thread, which is reworking OKW
Fixed by buffing elite troops
Then just about all of OKW's midgame woes when they're fighting vet 2-3 squads are solved.But yeah, rename Volkgrens to Volksturm or something.
Had fun doing this earlier
8 Nov 2015, 13:02 PM
#69
Posts: 824
Change Vet 5 system into a Vet 3 and remove resource penalty, but adjust costs on units and buildings. Vet 5 is unreachable 99.99% of the time on 80% of the OKW units due to insane vet requirements. Remove the resource penalty and adjust teching costs and some vehicle costs, it really isn't a "good" design IMO given how the costs for Brits is handled.
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8 Nov 2015, 15:33 PM
#70
Posts: 770
I don't understand why people want Volks to be stronger. They will get even more spamable by that.
lol wut?
8 Nov 2015, 16:31 PM
#71
Posts: 89
I don't mind if they are just Panzerschreck carriers tbh, and they're not bad when it comes to holding the line until more support comes - thats their role in the earlygame at least. We don't really need volks to be generalist infantry, especially when Falls, Obers, fusilleers, and with higher vet, sturmpioneer should be mopping the floor when it comes to infantry. The main problem is that they're not doing that, so it leaves OKW very underwhelmed when it comes to Infantry AI.
This.
Team game player.
All factions Player.
All factions Player.
8 Nov 2015, 16:55 PM
#72
Posts: 954
Long forgotten eastern front has something to say 
Soviet Tier4 T-34/76? only doctrine with no LMG for basic infantry with a terrible end game tier.....
The game DOW2 retribution's imperial guard was a mass success(compare to other factions), mass/weak infantry with some Elite unit, and come with a powerful tank(non-doc), I was expecting a imerperial guard V2 in coh2, but lelic turned out to be a total failure of representing the most powerful ground force of ww2 till the cold war ends.
Even the fucking most produced generalist tank AKA T-34/85 has been locked in commanders, and one of which are paid content....
Soviet Tier4 T-34/76? only doctrine with no LMG for basic infantry with a terrible end game tier.....
The game DOW2 retribution's imperial guard was a mass success(compare to other factions), mass/weak infantry with some Elite unit, and come with a powerful tank(non-doc), I was expecting a imerperial guard V2 in coh2, but lelic turned out to be a total failure of representing the most powerful ground force of ww2 till the cold war ends.
Even the fucking most produced generalist tank AKA T-34/85 has been locked in commanders, and one of which are paid content....
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
8 Nov 2015, 19:04 PM
#73
Posts: 1891
OKW is quality of quantity, specialization over utilitarian.
Volks are a spammable generalist unit.
Volks really need a total rework into a 4 man unit of somekind, that specializes in something the OKW nondoc infantry lacks.
Volks are a spammable generalist unit.
Volks really need a total rework into a 4 man unit of somekind, that specializes in something the OKW nondoc infantry lacks.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
8 Nov 2015, 19:08 PM
#74
Posts: 954
OKW is quality of quantity, specialization over utilitarian.
Volks are a spammable generalist unit.
Volks really need a total rework into a 4 man unit of somekind, that specializes in something the OKW nondoc infantry lacks.
MP44 for volkleader? Cover buff for Volks? (OMG I respect those ppl who created vCOH.....)
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
8 Nov 2015, 19:25 PM
#75
Posts: 1705
Volks should be a powerful defensive unit,but crap offense to stop spam.They should have defensive abilities like for the fatherland and vet bonuses in freindly territory.
And for offensive obers should be made more cost effective.Fallschirm jager need a reinforce cost decrease to 35 and 5 men at vet 2.
And for offensive obers should be made more cost effective.Fallschirm jager need a reinforce cost decrease to 35 and 5 men at vet 2.
8 Nov 2015, 23:25 PM
#76
Posts: 270 | Subs: 1
I want to add that I think the Flak gun on the Schwere Panzer headquarters should be an additional upgrade that costs fuel or munitions or whatever.
Successfully making a breakthrough and pushing the enemy back and then when you go to cap the VP or fuel that thing is sat there obnoxiously shooting from long range and you can't do anything or destroy it in time before the SchreckVolks or Obers come back from the Battlegroup HQ freshly healed and ready.
It also makes matches extremely frustrating since the leIG is still extremely potent and it can just sit there next to the flak truck with no way to flank it or kill it without great difficulty, since the Flak gun can dissuade medium armor on its own.
Successfully making a breakthrough and pushing the enemy back and then when you go to cap the VP or fuel that thing is sat there obnoxiously shooting from long range and you can't do anything or destroy it in time before the SchreckVolks or Obers come back from the Battlegroup HQ freshly healed and ready.
It also makes matches extremely frustrating since the leIG is still extremely potent and it can just sit there next to the flak truck with no way to flank it or kill it without great difficulty, since the Flak gun can dissuade medium armor on its own.
9 Nov 2015, 00:14 AM
#77
Posts: 747 | Subs: 2
lol wut?
Why would someone go for Obersoldaten, Jaegers, Fusiliers or Fallis if he could just spam effective Volks. That's my point. Getting elite infantry would become obsolete.
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9 Nov 2015, 01:56 AM
#78
Posts: 362
In terms of what Relic can actually do to fix OKW.
I feel the Kubelwagen needs something. It's mobile, sure, but its damage output is awful and it's not exactly great at suppressing stuff. It's also incredibly micro-intensive to use and prone to terrible pathfinding.
OKW veterancy needs to be changed so that Vet 5 is actually better than Vet 3 and is actually achievable most of the time.
I think the Flak Halftrack needs to be improved. Its lack of mobility makes it too vulnerable to AT guns to really be a good buy.
MG34 should be buffed a bit.
Bundle Grenade should be buffed.
Volksgrenadiers need to get more accuracy bonuses with veterancy or something so they can fight infantry in the late-game. Not huge bonuses, but more than they get now.
I think the munitions penalty should be removed, along with some changed to the redistribute resources ability (in order to prevent massive artillery spam and such).
Other than that ... I don't know. OKW has such a stupid design it's hard for me to really imagine them working properly.
I feel the Kubelwagen needs something. It's mobile, sure, but its damage output is awful and it's not exactly great at suppressing stuff. It's also incredibly micro-intensive to use and prone to terrible pathfinding.
OKW veterancy needs to be changed so that Vet 5 is actually better than Vet 3 and is actually achievable most of the time.
I think the Flak Halftrack needs to be improved. Its lack of mobility makes it too vulnerable to AT guns to really be a good buy.
MG34 should be buffed a bit.
Bundle Grenade should be buffed.
Volksgrenadiers need to get more accuracy bonuses with veterancy or something so they can fight infantry in the late-game. Not huge bonuses, but more than they get now.
I think the munitions penalty should be removed, along with some changed to the redistribute resources ability (in order to prevent massive artillery spam and such).
Other than that ... I don't know. OKW has such a stupid design it's hard for me to really imagine them working properly.
9 Nov 2015, 02:11 AM
#79
Posts: 571
Why would someone go for Obersoldaten, Jaegers, Fusiliers or Fallis if he could just spam effective Volks. That's my point. Getting elite infantry would become obsolete.
Why would someone go for rangers and airborne if he could just spam effective rifleman. That's my point. Getting elite infantry would become obsolete.
Wait, isn't that the current US meta? At least volks can be countered unlike terminator rifles.
Nerf rifleman then.
9 Nov 2015, 02:17 AM
#80
Posts: 928
Why would someone go for rangers and airborne if he could just spam effective rifleman. That's my point. Getting elite infantry would become obsolete.
Wait, isn't that the current US meta? At least volks can be countered unlike terminator rifles.
Nerf rifleman then.
This post is about OKW, not rifles, although i do agree riflemen need a nerf, but this is simply unconstructive. We want to work out how to fix the game, not whats broken.
Had fun doing this earlier
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