PLS try to avoid to flame wars they are not helpful.
PLS try to understand the point of this thread. This thread is not about how OP UKF are but easily they can counter ATG that should act like hard counter to them.
Currently ones best counter to UKF tanks are Stug and JP...
If people can't counter UKF tanks the tank will have their stat nerfed again and in my opinion that is not the way to go.
The real issues with UKF Armor. (makes ATG useless)
29 Oct 2015, 10:45 AM
#41
Posts: 677
29 Oct 2015, 10:50 AM
#42
Posts: 345
yeah and it´s OK we disagreee....no problem there.
well, R.W. HAS to have the least range of all ATG, again, it´s a T0 unit, you don´t need to tech to get one (only atg that is T0 unit), and can be garrisoned, and can retreat....do you imagine how OP could be if in addition this atg would have the range of others atg???? it is more than fine as it is man. Ohh and its aiming time was buffed some time ago.....
I grab any R.W. that I find abandoned in the battlefield....for me it is a great atg. (not that because I do this is the way to go...but IMHO is a great atg and we shouldn´t expect to have only advantages..... you lose range, but you gain an ATG that is cheaper and unique....the best one in urban maps if you ask me).
About SP, yeah they are expensive, I was just putting it on the table because you said no unit should be able to fight and repair so well....and well, those SP do both duties really well if properly microed....
again, noob here, so my opinion surely is wrong.
well, R.W. HAS to have the least range of all ATG, again, it´s a T0 unit, you don´t need to tech to get one (only atg that is T0 unit), and can be garrisoned, and can retreat....do you imagine how OP could be if in addition this atg would have the range of others atg???? it is more than fine as it is man. Ohh and its aiming time was buffed some time ago.....
I grab any R.W. that I find abandoned in the battlefield....for me it is a great atg. (not that because I do this is the way to go...but IMHO is a great atg and we shouldn´t expect to have only advantages..... you lose range, but you gain an ATG that is cheaper and unique....the best one in urban maps if you ask me).
About SP, yeah they are expensive, I was just putting it on the table because you said no unit should be able to fight and repair so well....and well, those SP do both duties really well if properly microed....
again, noob here, so my opinion surely is wrong.
An already muni starved faction (OKW) is now more muni starved and still can't build caches.
29 Oct 2015, 11:13 AM
#43
Posts: 170
PLS try to avoid to flame wars they are not helpful.
PLS try to understand the point of this thread. This thread is not about how OP UKF are but easily they can counter ATG that should act like hard counter to them.
Currently ones best counter to UKF tanks are Stug and JP...
If people can't counter UKF tanks the tank will have their stat nerfed again and in my opinion that is not the way to go.
You don't just build at guns and expect them to hardcounter all enemy tanks. That would make fuel advantage pointless. They are rather used as supporting forces for your armor or as tools to stall for it.
Tank nades: churchill nades need damage nerf, but they really should make them more reliable (as of now they my or may not launch on command, even more so when moving)
Comet WP: range to 50, slightly less damage, more reliability.
AVRE and Croc are countered by any medium vehicle.
Warspeed is fine, a slight nerf to churchill speed bonus at most.
The stupid movement penalty for Heavy Engineers should just be removed, their armor down to 1.5 and muni cost to 50.
29 Oct 2015, 15:20 PM
#44
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
No not really. Of course the Brits won't be removed.
Why do I get the feeling that you were one of the people to defend OKW when they launched? I dunno..
You get the correct feeling and I'll explain why. Back then, OKW suffered by same penalty for amo and fuel. 66% amo, 66% fuel income. And people requested that falls, obers, JLIs pay for upgrades. Absurd.
Then, the amo penalty was cut, but then we had the "shreck blobs". Then shreck was nerfed and amo penalty became 80%.
Before brits were launched, that was okish, no complaint. Now, it feels like OKW needs a fuel penalty reduction let's say to 80%.
Dunno, OKW - as a whole - is constantly pushed to search and invent cheesee tactics (as shreck blob in the past and leigh spam today) because they don't realy have to manny options due to penalties level...
Look at USF for instance. The pack howie has the same impact as leigh but fewer people complaint about it. Because USF players, having other viable options, do not abuse of pack howies to such extent that OKW players do.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
29 Oct 2015, 15:32 PM
#45
Posts: 513
You get the correct feeling and I'll explain why. Back then, OKW suffered by same penalty for amo and fuel. 66% amo, 66% fuel income. And people requested that falls, obers, JLIs pay for upgrades. Absurd.
Then, the amo penalty was cut, but then we had the "shreck blobs". Then shreck was nerfed and amo penalty became 80%.
Before brits were launched, that was okish, no complaint. Now, it feels like OKW needs a fuel penalty reduction let's say to 80%.
Dunno, OKW - as a whole - is constantly pushed to search and invent cheesee tactics (as shreck blob in the past and leigh spam today) because they don't realy have to manny options due to penalties level...
Look at USF for instance. The pack howie has the same impact as leigh but fewer people complaint about it. Because USF players, having other viable options, do not abuse of pack howies to such extent that OKW players do.
OKW LeIG have literally double the range and are usually sitting next to a Med HQ with a flak base next to it, makes the entire thing totally different to US howi's that need to move within range to do anything.
OKW on release was broken as shit mate, don't even try and say otherwise.
29 Oct 2015, 15:36 PM
#46
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
OKW LeIG have literally double the range and are usually sitting next to a Med HQ with a flak base next to it, makes the entire thing totally different to US howi's that need to move within range to do anything.
Like someone is stopping you of placing your pack howie next FRP with ambulance and major.... Sure, it has a lower range but has other features that make up for that.
OKW on release was broken as shit mate, don't even try and say otherwise.
Where did I say this? And Relic didn't learn anything from it. Prove: british faction, at launch.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
29 Oct 2015, 15:52 PM
#47
Posts: 513
Like someone is stopping you of placing your pack howie next FRP with ambulance and major.... Sure, it has a lower range but has other features that make up for that.
Where did I say this? And Relic didn't learn anything from it. Prove: british faction, at launch.
Lmao put your US Howi's next to your major and ambulance, is this a joke? Have you seen what 2 LeIG's barraging an Ambulance does?
29 Oct 2015, 16:11 PM
#48
Posts: 738
@katitof
@Firesparks
@Ful4n0
l2quote, this isn't twitch or reddit
29 Oct 2015, 16:24 PM
#49
Posts: 677
Can we pls get back to subject of UKF tank vs ATGs?
The last 5 posts have nothing to do with the subject...
The last 5 posts have nothing to do with the subject...
29 Oct 2015, 16:28 PM
#50
Posts: 1217
Before brits were launched, that was okish, no complaint. Now, it feels like OKW needs a fuel penalty reduction let's say to 80%.This is actually a very good suggestion. With the arrival of Brits OKW is pretty useless.
The LeIG kept them ingame during the current patch but that gets rightfully nerfed.
From now on you can´t dominate early mid game with OKW as well and are going to be stuck with the fuel penalty and vehicles that aren´t even better than their British counterpart. Let me remind you that the whole concept of the fuel penalty is having less yet better units. But you just get comparable units for an effectively higher price.
An 80% fuel income would at least keep OKW in the game, because currently it´s simply lackluster. To compensate too early Flak HTs the fuel price of the Mech truck could be adjusted accordingly of course.
29 Oct 2015, 18:38 PM
#51
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I won't respond to OP due to terrible balance experience. This one is quite better.
4 - If someone is hit by churchill or comet grenade, it's their fault for sit infantry or weapon team idly at close range. A good player avoid it completely with no problem.
It has 120dmg with no drop off in its whole radius. You can dodge it, but if you are barely hit you will still wipe entities.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
29 Oct 2015, 18:47 PM
#52
Posts: 657
As it stands right now, Axis has always had access to the best anti tank options in the game. What it really comes down to is learn and adapt, Allies have always been on the receiving end and UKF shakes it up a bit.
29 Oct 2015, 22:41 PM
#53
Posts: 677
@Jackiebrown
What it comes down is that UKF Armor will continue to have their stat nerfed, while it not actually, the stat that create the problem but a number of abilities and other factors that make ATGs not a valid option and leave Stugs and JPs the only solid counter to British armour.
Nearly any UKF tank can attack 1 ATG and kill it with more ease than a Brummbar or Sherman dozer and some of them can attack 2 and survive while killing at least 1 of them.
The argument that faction X was o.p. so now it has to be u.p. holds absolutely no water.
I play all faction and modes and currently I am higher with UKF that any other faction (in the top 50 in some modes)...So I am not actually the one that has to learn and adapt but my opponents...
My personal skill thou has absolutely nothing to do with the efficiency that UKF armor has to deal with ATGs...
PLS lets try to avoid flame wars...
What it comes down is that UKF Armor will continue to have their stat nerfed, while it not actually, the stat that create the problem but a number of abilities and other factors that make ATGs not a valid option and leave Stugs and JPs the only solid counter to British armour.
Nearly any UKF tank can attack 1 ATG and kill it with more ease than a Brummbar or Sherman dozer and some of them can attack 2 and survive while killing at least 1 of them.
The argument that faction X was o.p. so now it has to be u.p. holds absolutely no water.
I play all faction and modes and currently I am higher with UKF that any other faction (in the top 50 in some modes)...So I am not actually the one that has to learn and adapt but my opponents...
My personal skill thou has absolutely nothing to do with the efficiency that UKF armor has to deal with ATGs...
PLS lets try to avoid flame wars...
29 Oct 2015, 23:08 PM
#54
Posts: 378
It has 120dmg with no drop off in its whole radius. You can dodge it, but if you are barely hit you will still wipe entities.
I know it's lethal, but if you see churchill or comet get near you, you should take careful measurement before that grenade can be seen.
I met some good players who kept units in distance from those tank. Use grenade against them is extremely hard and not profitable because they already keep the eye on the ability.
30 Oct 2015, 05:38 AM
#55
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I know it's lethal, but if you see churchill or comet get near you, you should take careful measurement before that grenade can be seen.
I met some good players who kept units in distance from those tank. Use grenade against them is extremely hard and not profitable because they already keep the eye on the ability.
Not against infantry, rather than paks.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
30 Oct 2015, 12:22 PM
#56
Posts: 47
@elchino7
Further comet tanks can have 3 bulletins of 5% experience combined with 20%(?) from the commander and having 2530 XP value (same as a panther while having more DPS)
You can't use a flaw with the intel bulletin system (that allows duplicate bulletins to be stacked) as a justification for complaining about unit balance. The same logic could be applied to all units.
30 Oct 2015, 12:26 PM
#57
Posts: 47
The stupid movement penalty for Heavy Engineers should just be removed, their armor down to 1.5 and muni cost to 50.
Or maybe a compromise?
Rather than halving the speed reduce it by 25%, make the armour 1.75 and add a 40 muni cost per unit.
30 Oct 2015, 12:54 PM
#58
Posts: 677
@Quercus
"You can't use a flaw with the intel bulletin system..."
I am not and it is not a flaw in the bulletin system...
1) comet has the same XP value as panther while its more expensive and has more DPS...its XP value should follow the price.
2)Comet is the only tank in the game that has a commander that make it vet faster and bulletin to further make it vet faster so the same logic does not apply to all units...
(Hammer tank commanders simply offer way too much, xp gain being one of them...)
This thread is not about unit balance and I am not complaining about it. This thread is about the UKF vs ATGs, where UKF Tanks overpeform and that creates problems with balance..
"You can't use a flaw with the intel bulletin system..."
I am not and it is not a flaw in the bulletin system...
1) comet has the same XP value as panther while its more expensive and has more DPS...its XP value should follow the price.
2)Comet is the only tank in the game that has a commander that make it vet faster and bulletin to further make it vet faster so the same logic does not apply to all units...
(Hammer tank commanders simply offer way too much, xp gain being one of them...)
This thread is not about unit balance and I am not complaining about it. This thread is about the UKF vs ATGs, where UKF Tanks overpeform and that creates problems with balance..
30 Oct 2015, 17:59 PM
#59
Posts: 482
OK previously it was my fault, the target size of Comet is 22. But the target size of Centaur and Cromwell is 18,as same as 222/M3 scout car. Even all the halftracks have 20.
Why do the medium tanks have so small target size?This will make them harder to hit by AT guns.
Why do the medium tanks have so small target size?This will make them harder to hit by AT guns.
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30 Oct 2015, 18:22 PM
#60
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Allied tanks are harder to hit, axis tanks have more armor.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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