Your opinion on the state of the 222

It simply has a different role in CoH2 than it had in vCoH.
The PE 222 was a fast glass cannon that was very strong against inf.
The Ostheer 222 is more what it really was, a fast SCOUT car (vet3 + scopes is literally a legal map hack). In addition it is a light vehicle counter that wasn't needed in vCoH because the level of cheese was not as high as it in its predecessor. CoH2 has fast Universal Carriers, fast M3 and M20 rush that simply drives around PaKs. Hunting them is why I rush T2 in 2v2 games. While vCoH had jeeps and ... Bren Carriers ... Forget what I said

At least 222 has the role of scouting, poor Soviets have tryhard M3 and T70, which one am I supposed to use Lelic

It's a piece of rubbish in terms of Anti Inf.

In terms of supporting infantry, it simply can't do anything, it doesn't kill inf reliably;
ie: even if you flank a MG/mortar successfully, it doesn't kill it at all, while there is a huge chance you can swarm and shot to death by small arms fire, same goes for kiting defensively.

Other than getting it to counter the usual M3/M20 rush, after that it serves no purpose other than sit in your base.

Oh, maybe put a scope on it to be your spotter if you're desperate, since Ost needs advanced field awareness BADLY.

IMO it should cost much more, but be much more accurate or much more survivable.

In CoH1, people dont complaint that PE 222 can kill inf & Jeep/Bren when counter wasn't available because small arms can kill it, and it's expensive.

In CoH1, people dont complaint that PE 222 can kill inf & Jeep/Bren when counter wasn't available because small arms can kill it, and it's expensive.

Hey, let's give it Luchs' gun, they used the same one and then maybe increase price to 30 fuel

Show Spoiler

vet3 222 with spotting scope aka map hack. better then every IR-Halftrack

The more I think about it, the more I think this is the reason:

In CoH1, early game (1-8 minutes) was focused heavily on infantry units. Mid game (8-20) relied heavily on the use of scout vehicles or light tank (M8, Stuart, Puma).

Meanwhile in CoH2, you can get an M3 scout car at 0 minutes, and an M20 at 4 minutes, and one of the best "answers" to these units is the 222.

So in conclusion, the 222 from CoH1 had great AI capabilities and poor AT capabilities because the early game was dominated by infantry, while in CoH2 the 222 has great anti-light vehicle capabilities and RELATIVELY poor AI capabilities since CoH2 early game is dominated by the use of light scout vehicles.

Edit: I see Highfiveeeee already touched on this topic. Nice.

And in response to the bren carrier/jeep:

The Jeep is PURE scout. It's DPS was horrendous and died very quickly to MG42 and Volk fire.

The Bren carrier was a stupid design by Relic which unfortunately carried over and was expanded upon in CoH2 in the form of the M3 and the UC again. However, the presence of the bike in CoH1 made the bren carrier manageable.

It always feeled worse. That may be coused by the fact mg was acc based and autocannon is AoE based damage, so in best case the damage is the same but less consistent. The other factor is that 222 can destroy cover, cool thing but it also means it shoots cover instead of squads (the same factor as with IS-2 or tiger for example) so there is less damage. And last but not the least it costs more now, you could build 2 and upgrade only one before. Now one delays tech as much as 2 did before.

I'm also pretty sure it keeps the MG as well as having the auto canon. I might be wrong?

Siuking saying the 222 might as well sit in base... just lol. It doesn't even need a scope to be an excellent scouting vehicle.

Why does everyone keep saying its ai ability is terrible? Compare its ai with m3, kubel and UC... yeah not so bad after all is it, given that it fucks up all other scout cars.

Geez Nosliw, all the best players used to get early jeeps and bikes for inf pushing etc. You're making it sound like those units never came out before 8 minutes...

Hey, let's give it Luchs' gun, they used the same one and then maybe increase price to 30 fuel

Show Spoiler

Same gun as the Luchs, and nearly (just a different mount and barrel length) the same as the Sd Kfz 251/17 and base defense FlaK38. And all of them function a bit differently, some better than others.

It is pretty useless atm because it just dies to the prorifelblob...

I use 222s to counter Bren Carriers, M20s or Clown Cars. I like using them together with spotting scopes. Vet2 scout cars + scopes are insane. So it has some uses.

The real problem imo is the lack of late game utility of the Scout Car (without doctrinal scopes). But that´s more a problem of all light vehicles.

PE's 222 was OP as hell and cancerous. Don't bring it back.

CoH2's 222 is very good, counters light vehicles and perfect for chasing down infantry + also best recon, and dirt cheap.

I'm also pretty sure it keeps the MG as well as having the auto canon. I might be wrong?

It didn't keep the mg after upgrade in the sense that the mg it gets deals much less damage than 221 mg. It was done that way couse they wanted both variants to have same AI so when autocannon came the mg must have been worse, actually its more of a cool graphical feature than a real mg in terms of damage.

PE's 222 was OP as hell and cancerous. Don't bring it back.

CoH2's 222 is very good, counters light vehicles and perfect for chasing down infantry + also best recon, and dirt cheap.

Not to mention, the 222 is great for Kat hunting!

It was a beast in vCoh, but you could still beat it hands down in green cover with a rifle squad.

It didn't keep the mg after upgrade in the sense that the mg it gets deals much less damage than 221 mg. It was done that way couse they wanted both variants to have same AI so when autocannon came the mg must have been worse, actually its more of a cool graphical feature than a real mg in terms of damage.

No, it's the same MG.

222 is great, the amount of pressure it gives when it arrives is great, I've killed a sherman with it.
No, it's not a vehicle that can shoot at infantry at point blank, it has a role and that's scouting an shooting from a distance.

It counters the wc51/scout easily. It goes head on with the m20. It can kill the EAC togheter with the pak. This car is great and for it's cost it's amazing imo.

Its trash. Increase cost, increase wet tissue armor to m5 levels, make the 2cm more than a automatic stapler.

Make it smaller.