LeIG AND Packhowitzer are useless without auto facing

I don't see how this is going to help to fix these units, but okay... I'm also assuming you can just negate the effects of this change by attack moving with ISGs towards enemy forces, right?

If the little guns don't suppress, then what is their intended role?

If the little guns don't suppress, then what is their intended role?

Long range killing of dudes with stuff. LeIG and Pack Howie were used before they got supression. They weren't stellar, but noone ever said "wtf do I use these units for".

Long range killing of dudes with stuff. LeIG and Pack Howie were used before they got supression. They weren't stellar, but noone ever said "wtf do I use these units for".

And that was found to be an extremely underwhelming role, especially with the blobberino spammachino that this game is on both sides..

which is why they got suppression in the first place.

Shouldn't a mg34/42 be the counter to that, like every other faction has?

Long range killing of dudes with stuff. LeIG and Pack Howie were used before they got supression. They weren't stellar, but noone ever said "wtf do I use these units for".

The LeIG was mostly useful to chase off 120mm mortars and stop bleeding mp. It was okay at best for a regular combat role. The pack howie was also okay but not great. Neither of them performed up to their cost or pop cap.

In both cases, the buff to those units gave OKW and USF some cheese to fight other factions cheese. Up until last week, the win rates shown on coh2chart.com was probably the most balanced that it has ever been when looking at all four game modes.

The nerf, particularly to the pack howie, will leave the USF without any blob counter. The USF hmg doesn't stop blobs, it just gives them a free hmg if they want or something to salvage.

At some level, Relic did need to do something about these units because gameplay in 1v1's had got to where it wasn't fun. I don't want an hour long arty-fest and these units had turned every map into Sittard (sp?).

It is disappointing that Relic nerfed the pack howie much harder, while leaving the pop cap and cost the same. I wonder if they realized that the pack howie shoots fewer shells in a barrage, has a narrower firing cone, and significantly worse accuracy, all while costing 50 more mp to purchase, 3 more mp per minute in upkeep, and 2 more pop cap.

which is why they got suppression in the first place.

And they were fine at that point. Then they changed suppression values and turn them into snipers.

Just to be clear, I do not mind that the light artillery pieces suppress.

Sadly I agree that US forces are lacking in the blob counter department, especially what EffenNewbie said about the .50cal. But this problem is on the .50cal, I don't think it was ever ingame without some bugged modifier or another. All you need to know about its effectiveness is that people didn't get much use for it even when it had +15% accuracy instead of +15% received accuracy standard for weapon teams (or was it +25%? I forget).

But does all that mean that LeIG and Pack howie should suppress? Well, I don't think the suppression is the problem as much as its pinpoint accuracy. Light artillery pieces should be there for long range fire support. They should be the death of weapon teams and stationary emplacements, a natural choice for when the opponent entrenches. Currently they do not fulfil just this role, they are anti-everything-on-2-legs.

Even though it's annoying to be on the receiving end, the suppression mechanic is good to punish blobs and force you to separate units but what needs to stop
Is the one shot pin. You can be almost finish capping a point then boom a shot hits and you go straight to pinned and point starts going white. Even a vet 3 MG doesn't do that it takes a few seconds to go to pinned. If they keep the no auto face and remove 1 shot pinning then just balancing out the suppression and damage profile should be simple.

Supression sure. But sniping vehicles and infantry alike? No way. Had too many 222s aand stuarts blow up by the leig and The p ppack howi.

Supression sure. But sniping vehicles and infantry alike? No way. Had too many 222s aand stuarts blow up by the leig and The p ppack howi.

The pack howie does 80 damage and is only going to kill a 222 if something else badly damaged it first. However, both are pretty good at driving light vehicles back.

They both need to be nerfed, but the LeIG needs more of a nerf. The LeIG has roughly half the effective scatter and nearly always hits its targets, including lone snipers. The scatter on its barrage doesn't seem distant dependent so it hits in the same small circle at max range. I've been trying to play UKF this weekend and have lost probably five snipers to the leig.

LeIG has a fairly wide firing cone so the nerf to auto-rotate won't hurt it too bad. The pack howie has a much smaller firing cone and is nearly worthless in the October patch review. It also has a really long range for auto-fire and barrage.

The one-hit pin is what bothers me the most about both of these weapons currently. I've had 1v1's where I win a battle at my fuel and am recapping when one of these lands a direct hit, forces a retreat, and completely changes the course of the match. OWK can build this shit starting at about 3:30 in the match.

Just shows you, axis are going to gripe on the forums about things that they didn't even test out and lie about, just so they can attempt to hold onto their op weapons...nothing new here. Sadly the devs were probably sitting there agreeing with them on this thread..probably got a red alert on their computers that axis are crying and they need to nerf something of allies, without realizing they didn't update their own game they never test lol.

Red alert on their computers that Axis are crying... funny as hell.

They need to function like a normal mortars (I'm thinking 120mm). Massive range, slow RoF, high damage, slow projectile speed. That way it is effective against support units and guys in cover. The thing is just awkward as-is and until they change the role it plays, it will either be an overperforming place and forget unit or very underwhelming.

Shouldn't a mg34/42 be the counter to that, like every other faction has?

Yeh but must people (me included) don´t want the homogenization of this game.

Reading from you, you want all factions to be equal, just dif skins.

Shouldn't a mg34/42 be the counter to that, like every other faction has?

They'll suppress blobs.

Just don't delude yourself that 260 mp will single handedly stop ~1k mp and 280+ muni investment.

If that was the case, KT would be terrified of single ZiS instead of rolling over it without even noticing it.

now it has been updated! just an fyi. #confirmed

LOL the OP and everyone agreeing with him just lost all credibility.

Thread of fucking liars.

You people let the cat out of the bag too fast; I wanted to see how many more were going to say "I played the preview and no autoface was a disaster!"

So Iron Emperor just made this entire thing up? It's going to be hard to take some of the balance suggestions seriously now, although I'm sure people have made up "stats" or gameplay stories plenty of times before when it's suitable to their interests.

For what it's worth, I see no issue with having to manually face something. I don't find it that hard to begin with.

Keep it the way its been changed or remove auto fire from it completely. At least now it wont be a brainless game changing unit that sits there and wins the game for you.

I brought up this idea in a prior thread.

Changing the 7.5cm leIG18 to be like it actually was historically might fix this problem. It was mainly used in direct fire, since it was light enough to be pushed around into position. When firing indirectly it's shells were no better than the 8cm GrW34 mortar, aside from a little more range.

So...
Regular attack is direct fire, firing an HE shell (No suppression), with a much shorter min range, and with a max range similar to an anti-tank gun.
Reinstate the HEAT rounds as a munitions ability, so it can act as a 'soft' anti-tank gun in emergencies.
Can barrage with an ability only, salvos aren't as fast the 8cm GrW34, and the arc is more shallow so more likely to hit buildings and obstacles.
Auto face can be removed, since it's acting more like anti-tank gun now.

End result:
Still good at knocking out infantry, machine-guns, and emplacements at a distance.
More of an offensive weapon, not a defensive one to halt enemy attacks from any direction.
Can act as an emergency anti-tank gun, but it will cost you munitions, and requires more micro since it's an ability.
Can act as a mortar, but not as good at it.

tl;dr jack of all trades gun, master of none


As for the 75mm M1 Pack Howitzer, that was definitely an artillery piece that was used indirectly almost all the time. It should stay as an auto-firing indirect weapon. Keep the auto-face but remove the suppression and I think it'd be fine.

I think having to manually face it is a really good idea if we are going to keep suppression. Otherwise it's just too effective and ends infantry play as soon as they roll out.