LeIG AND Packhowitzer are useless without auto facing

Jump back to quoted post20 Oct 2015, 07:44 AMHighfiveeeee

Why change gameplay and micro actions instead of just nerfing the unit itself?
It's the same with the Jagdtiger/ISU - it's just stress to babysit single units because they cannot act on their own (which is in addition not realistic because all other units somehow can).

I like mortars because they keep a constant barrage on my enemy that is not op but annoys him. The new LeIG is more annoying for me and in addition all the bugs and issues make it even harder to play (LeIG simply walking to the enemy instead of shooting, etc.)

I'd like to see the LeIG as it was before the suppression addition.
Less cost (About 300) and you have some kind of Mortar for OKW.

That's all people want.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2015, 02:41 AMCieZ

What needs to happen (in my opinion):

Relic needs to decide the role of these units. Should they be long-range suppression machines designed to stop/slow down blobs of units? Then they need to be able to suppress reliably but not bleed. I do not like this solution as suppression implemented in such a manner (i.e. with little to no real counter-play) does not reward the more skilled player but if that is the design intent behind these units... so be it. Give them a large amount of suppression but lower damage so that they do not bleed opponents.

Alternatively they could be more akin to mortars. In general I try to shy away from symmetric balance as I believe asymmetric balance is more interesting, but sometimes a line has to be drawn. Every faction should have access to efficient indirect fire units, lest the game become a WW I simulator where everyone digs in with stupid amounts of HMGs, bunkers and weapon teams. I am in the camp that believes static game play to be less exciting to watch as well as less rewarding for the better player. Both of these notions go against the idea of game play that could foster a competitive scene.

By removing the suppression from these units they would be able to serve as indirect fire support in much the same way that mortars currently do without forcing constant retreats and consistently swinging the tide of unwinnable engagements due to their suppression. They could counter garrisons, HMGs, and AT guns.

Of course there could be more complicated solutions and I think everyone should put forth their solutions so that Relic can have a greater pool of ideas to draw inspiration from.

Perhaps giving only the barrage suppression while increasing the cooldown considerably would be fair. This way you can push a blob with a well timed barrage or win an important engagement but the auto-fire would no longer play the game for you. This would also increase the potential for counter-play as an opponent could time other pushes around the cooldown between barrages.

The bottom line is - I think Relic needs to decide what role they want these units to fulfill and then design them around that. Having a unit that acts as a long range MG and mortar with the potential to one-shot squads (mostly the Pack Howi) that requires no micro to use and presents little to no real counter-play is a disaster.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2015, 02:41 AMCieZ

Furthermore since there is generally no great way to get out of suppression/pin in the middle of combat you are generally forced to retreat units constantly. Time is a valuable resource in RTS, especially in CoH 2 where time is directly correlated to map control due to the capping mechanics. Having such reliable suppression at such long range with such a high amount of map coverage in a 1v1 is just absurd. Currently these units are basically extremely long range MGs that inflict considerable bleed without exposing themselves to any real danger.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2015, 09:51 AMAustralian Magic

Remove completly autofire - big buffs for barrage?

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2015, 02:41 AMCieZ

Perhaps giving only the barrage suppression while increasing the cooldown considerably would be fair. This way you can push a blob with a well timed barrage or win an important engagement but the auto-fire would no longer play the game for you. This would also increase the potential for counter-play as an opponent could time other pushes around the cooldown between barrages.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 12:30 PMnee

Some thoughts in response to some posts

-Keep auto-facing, but remove suppression in automatic fire;
-Suppression occurs only when you manually barrage a target area; the barrage can be renamed "Suppressive Barrage".

Other ways to improve:

-Reduce turning speed of these weapons so while you may still auto-face, there is slower response to detected units in range;
-Turning speed can be increased as part of veterancy buffs.

This way, you get a unit that can suitably perform by itself, but certainly far less optimal than if you micromanaged it yourself.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2015, 09:54 AMKatitof

I'd love to see that for PACK howi, 6-8 short barrage, current cooldown and vet.

No idea what to do with ISG though, same treatment doesn't seem suitable, it'll always be a problem as long as it have 100 range and pinpoint accuracy, hardcountering anything that stops for a second for a firefight in cover.