Firefly and the tulip

Take a way the Tulip rocket or decrease the damage output and adjust reload on main gun accordingly. I'm all for that solution.
Right now Firefly is only good if you have 100 munition to spare.

I would agree with this too. Although I would do this a little differently. I wouldn't touch the base reload value of the main gun. I would make a vet 2 bonus for it's reload instead. As for the Tulip, it seems it already has a high chance of dealing criticals, so nerfing the damage shouldn't weaken it too much and Tulips can take of the role of a snare instead. Making it cheaper would be needed though so maybe 50 Munitions per use?

I would agree with this too. Although I would do this a little differently. I wouldn't touch the base reload value of the main gun. I would make a vet 2 bonus for it's reload instead. As for the Tulip, it seems it already has a high chance of dealing criticals, so nerfing the damage shouldn't weaken it too much and Tulips can take of the role of a snare instead. Making it cheaper would be needed though so maybe 50 Munitions per use?

Vet 2 is -25% reload already.

I would agree with this too. Although I would do this a little differently. I wouldn't touch the base reload value of the main gun. I would make a vet 2 bonus for it's reload instead. As for the Tulip, it seems it already has a high chance of dealing criticals, so nerfing the damage shouldn't weaken it too much and Tulips can take of the role of a snare instead. Making it cheaper would be needed though so maybe 50 Munitions per use?

I like this idea.
Tulips act like snares and do vehicle crits instead of being ICBMs that allow the Firefly to instantly kill mediums.

What's the big deal with the tulips? it's a bloody skill shot. if your tank is moving it's very hard to land the rockets...

What's the big deal with the tulips? it's a bloody skill shot. if your tank is moving it's very hard to land the rockets...

They're not that hard to land though due to their incredible speed once fired and the Firefly also has long-range with both the Tulips and the main gun so you could snipe an enemy vehicle from the FOW without them knowing until they hear "We've lost a panzer."

They're too gimmicky. They take forever to reload and cost a ton to buy and use, but also allow the Firefly to instant nuke medium tanks. With people hating instant squad-wipes, imagine instant tank-wipes. What the Firefly needs is more reliability and less reliance on being a one-shot tank removal button that isn't that effective outside of that role.

They're not that hard to land though due to their incredible speed once fired and the Firefly also has long-range with both the Tulips and the main gun so you could snipe an enemy vehicle from the FOW without them knowing until they hear "We've lost a panzer."

They're too gimmicky. They take forever to reload and cost a ton to buy and use, but also allow the Firefly to instant nuke medium tanks. With people hating instant squad-wipes, imagine instant tank-wipes. What the Firefly needs in more reliability and less reliance on being a one-shot tank removal button that isn't that effective outside of that role.

^^^ Good post

They're not that hard to land though due to their incredible speed once fired and the Firefly also has long-range with both the Tulips and the main gun so you could snipe an enemy vehicle from the FOW without them knowing until they hear "We've lost a panzer."

They're too gimmicky. They take forever to reload and cost a ton to buy and use, but also allow the Firefly to instant nuke medium tanks. With people hating instant squad-wipes, imagine instant tank-wipes. What the Firefly needs is more reliability and less reliance on being a one-shot tank removal button that isn't that effective outside of that role.

Except they are really hard to land since the tulips have to wait for the turret traverse and the firefly has one of the slowest in the game.

7 reload
tulip damage to 160 each with price drop
done!

I can't find the stats, can anyone post the actual range of the firefly's main gun? From what I could see in game it's pretty retarded, more than a panther, so if any buff was made to it's reload time the range needs a nerf.

They're not that hard to land though due to their incredible speed once fired and the Firefly also has long-range with both the Tulips and the main gun so you could snipe an enemy vehicle from the FOW without them knowing until they hear "We've lost a panzer."

They're too gimmicky. They take forever to reload and cost a ton to buy and use, but also allow the Firefly to instant nuke medium tanks. With people hating instant squad-wipes, imagine instant tank-wipes. What the Firefly needs is more reliability and less reliance on being a one-shot tank removal button that isn't that effective outside of that role.

long aim and wind-up time make up to balance the fast travel speed. as do the munitions costs. I have no problem with something that works and people here are trying to nerf it so all allied tanks are homogenous.

Isn't it enough that the tank handles like a brick on wheels and has terrible turret turn speed? Not to mention a long ass reload. I find it's pretty cool as a fragile burst cannon.

I really don't want another jackson.

Speed buff, Slight ROF buff, like 10 sec reload to 7~8 sec, and reduce tulip damage as well as reduce the tulip rocket costs,

if they can fix the firefly's mantlet instead using a knock-off sherman 105mm's, I will be very very very happy.

long aim and wind-up time make up to balance the fast travel speed. as do the munitions costs. I have no problem with something that works and people here are trying to nerf it so all allied tanks are homogenous.

Isn't it enough that the tank handles like a brick on wheels and has terrible turret turn speed? Not to mention a long ass reload. I find it's pretty cool as a fragile burst cannon.

I really don't want another jackson.

The rockets don't take that long to fire, though. If I'm looking at the correct rockets, it's less than a second for it to aim and its wind-up for the first rocket is only 0.375. The main issue is the turret traverse for the Firefly.

Even with the munitions cost, do we really justify having medium tanks being oneshotted by a mobile platform? I know Tellers and M20 Mines do the same for light armour, but those are mines that have to sit and wait for some to roll over them and the counter-play is more readily available in the form of sweepers and them being detonated by accident/stray rounds.

It's less about nerfing and more about making it less "You lose a tank" or "Wait 10 seconds for your next shot/wish you were a 6 pounder."

It doesn't need to be a Jackson clone, but it shouldn't be completely reliant on its rockets do actually do its job at facing armour consistently rather than relying on that massive burst.

My suggestions(which is along the lines what others have suggested):

-Decrease reload to 7-8 seconds
-Slight boost to turret rotation
-Tulips deal less damage(120-160 range) but cost less

I can't find the stats, can anyone post the actual range of the firefly's main gun? From what I could see in game it's pretty retarded, more than a panther, so if any buff was made to it's reload time the range needs a nerf.

Firefly is a tank destroyer and has the same range as most the other tank destroyers which is 60.
Panther is outranged by most the TDs since it's range 50, but that's because it's an AT focused medium tank, not a tank destroyer. It also has A LOT more armor and speed to compensate.

Firefly is a tank destroyer and has the same range as most the other tank destroyers which is 60.
Panther is outranged by most the TDs since it's range 50, but that's because it's an AT focused medium tank, not a tank destroyer. It also has A LOT more armor and speed to compensate.

Need a source, I've seen the FF fire from a distance that seems roughly the same as that of an elepant and when I use it the range seems alot more than a jackson or SU85, I might be wrong, but if possible provide a screenshot of the game files.

The tulip rockets and to a lesser extent the Firefly itself aren't worth the cost imo. With the tulip rockets you are basically paying for a costly upgrade to earn the right to spend even more resources on an overpriced ability that may or may not hit the target. Sure it's neat when your Firefly takes half a Tiger's healthpool in 3 seconds but there is way more reliable AT and better ways to spend your fuel and munis as Brits imo.

I really wanted to love the Firefly because it looks awesome and it's one of the more iconic tanks in the game, but I've lost more than 1 game because I built the Firefly as opposed to saving for Comet/Churchill or relying on an earlier cromwell/centaur with 6lb support.

I agree with this. Using a Churchill supported with AT guns and better use of the muni's like for Typhoon runs.

They're not that hard to land though due to their incredible speed once fired and the Firefly also has long-range with both the Tulips and the main gun so you could snipe an enemy vehicle from the FOW without them knowing until they hear "We've lost a panzer."

They're too gimmicky. They take forever to reload and cost a ton to buy and use, but also allow the Firefly to instant nuke medium tanks. With people hating instant squad-wipes, imagine instant tank-wipes. What the Firefly needs is more reliability and less reliance on being a one-shot tank removal button that isn't that effective outside of that role.

I'd say the Pak 43, Elefant and Jagdtiger are pretty much .95-shot tank removal now for medium tanks. What's wrong with the Firefly nearly having the same thing vs Mediums?

I agree with this. Using a Churchill supported with AT guns and better use of the muni's like for Typhoon runs.


I'd say the Pak 43, Elefant and Jagdtiger are pretty much .95-shot tank removal now for medium tanks. What's wrong with the Firefly nearly having the same thing vs Mediums?

First of all, because .95 isn't the same as 1.0, being that one still gives you a chance to save the tank, however small. Secondly, the Firefly, while overpriced for its shitty reload, is still way cheaper than an Elefant or Jagdtiger. It simply is not the same thing and should not have the same role.

Also, stop commenting on the Brits like you have any idea how to play them, Mr. Only USF.

Need a source, I've seen the FF fire from a distance that seems roughly the same as that of an elepant and when I use it the range seems alot more than a jackson or SU85, I might be wrong, but if possible provide a screenshot of the game files.

Firefly range is 60, same as the jackson and su-85. They all pretty much serve the same role as their faction's main tank destroyer.

the elefant is 70

They should make it like it was in real life which it kind of is now but could be a lot closer and provide historical flavor and assymetrical balance.
In real life the firefly had insanely high penetration and range, highest of any medium built allies tank it could penetrate a Tiger's frontal armor at 1750 M (I will try to post the picture I have) whereas a T-34/85 had to close within 500 meters to penetrate. M4A4 Sherman 76 mm gun wasn't much better needing to close within 700 m to have a shot. So firefly should have great range and have a very flat damage profile such that it penetrates most armor even at max range, however it should also be very inaccurate at long range and not great at medium range because in real life the gun was so large for a turreted tank (and Sherman turret wasn't designed for such a big gun) that it was very inaccurate at long range. It would lead to lots of RNG bit it would be cool to see a British tank with massive range and penetration but also be very inaccurate so you have to decide to sit back and poke away at max range or try to close in to medium range where other tanks can hit back. My 2 cents.

IMO tulips should have been a doctrinal thing. They make tank impossible to balance. Imagine an elite infantry squad with a 150 muni upgrade that lets you use a 100 muni skills shot ability to wipe squads from the fog of war...not cool at all.

Plus firefly isn't even built much because 6 pounder walls, cromwells, churches and comets are all more effective at helping the British win.