Firefly and the tulip

first of all, the firefly without the tulip is vastly overpriced.

The firefly's ten seconds reload is notoriously long, its hp and armor are merely mediocre, and it's also a rather slow tank.The firely is only slightly faster than the tiger, and significantly slower than either the Pz4 or the Stug. At best it's comparable to the Jackson, a much cheaper unit. The Firefly should really cost 350 mp 125 fuel, same as the jackson.

I know people want to decrease the reload time, but that's not a good idea. First of all the Firefly with a faster reload time would likely curb-stomp the panzer4 and the stug. It's important to keep the two axis armor relevant into late game. The jackson's main weakness is its low hp, and the Firefly's main weakness is its long reload time and slow speed. I'm not entirely fond of a 440mp 155fuel unit having only 640 hp and 160 armor anyway.

I know the tulip is powerful. 2x240 damage rocket is borderline op. At the moment, the rocket is "balanced"by the firefly's high cost, the cost of the rails(50 mu), and the cost of the rockets (100 mu). If the firely get a cost decreased then the tulip's damage and cost will need be to scaled down. Another limitation would be increasing the firefly's minimal range, so a panzer4 or stug can more easily rush it.

With all your insight, why aren't you Relic's balance Chief?

I think that the tulips should be a manual reload instead of automatic, just as the Sturmtigers so the crew would be voulnerable etc.

But for real, a small speed buff could be nice

In the alpha, the reload on the gun was 6 sec (i don't remember quite well)

Everybody screamed at relic that it was too much, and everybody would just it for tulips, thats what we do now (yea i know good pen, it seal club p4 and stug at distance)

EDIT: Some bugs on my own sorry

dont fix what ain'tborken except tulip half thier damage ( still very heavy damage)..and maybe move it to vet 1 reduce the cost if you will

Firefly is pretty ..it until vet 2 but croc + firefly combination still solid imo we shouldn't focus on just one view.

Firefly is pretty ..it until vet 2 but croc + firefly combination still solid imo we shouldn't focus on just one view.

Its 330 fuel and almost 1k mp.
Thats 2 panthers or 4 stugs.

By the time that combination arrives, you should have a solid armored backbone yourself.

Its 330 fuel and almost 1k mp.
Thats 2 panthers or 4 stugs.

By the time that combination arrives, you should have a solid armored backbone yourself.

true but dont take panthers, they do little dps and dont pen often enough, take the 4 stugs, they are awesome vs brits tanks

dont fix what ain'tborken except tulip half thier damage ( still very heavy damage)..and maybe move it to vet 1 reduce the cost if you will

lol 'nothings wrong with it except HALF TULIP DAMAGE AND NERF THE TANK' your so boring

Ask yourself this, do you feel like the sherman firefly is in any way more cost effective than a Jackson, or if it's any better in the turreted tank destroyer role?

I wouldn't even consider the tulip without mines, the wind up is so long and the range is so short that it makes the firefly a perfect target while using it and almost impossible to hit the enemy while he is microing unless he has an engine crit.

Tulips shouldn't have piercing.

The tulip rockets and to a lesser extent the Firefly itself aren't worth the cost imo. With the tulip rockets you are basically paying for a costly upgrade to earn the right to spend even more resources on an overpriced ability that may or may not hit the target. Sure it's neat when your Firefly takes half a Tiger's healthpool in 3 seconds but there is way more reliable AT and better ways to spend your fuel and munis as Brits imo.

I really wanted to love the Firefly because it looks awesome and it's one of the more iconic tanks in the game, but I've lost more than 1 game because I built the Firefly as opposed to saving for Comet/Churchill or relying on an earlier cromwell/centaur with 6lb support.

British AT options in 1v1 suffer from one major problem above all- the extreme strength of the 6pdr.

6pdrs come early in the tech tree without need for upgrades, and two 6pdrs are enough to carry the faction all the way through the lategame with mine support. Piats, AEC, Bofors, 17pdr, Firefly, even the Comet, don't provide sufficient advantages in many situations over the cheap and early 6pdr to be worth buying. Fuel is better off spent on anti-infantry (centaur, croc, etc) backed up with 6pdr walls.

Agreed that the Firefly needs adjustments, although I'd rather see a reduction in reload time and turret rotation speed than a cost reduction. The acceleration and speed as it is currently seems to be Relic's solution to allow it to be flankable so the unit doesn't just fire and maneuver.

British AT options in 1v1 suffer from one major problem above all- the extreme strength of the 6pdr.

6pdrs come early in the tech tree without need for upgrades, and two 6pdrs are enough to carry the faction all the way through the lategame with mine support. Piats, AEC, Bofors, 17pdr, Firefly, even the Comet, don't provide sufficient advantages in many situations over the cheap and early 6pdr to be worth buying. Fuel is better off spent on anti-infantry (centaur, croc, etc) backed up with 6pdr walls.

The 6 pounder has to be strong because brits have no snare and tracking portable AT weapon.

British AT options in 1v1 suffer from one major problem above all- the extreme strength of the 6pdr.

6pdrs come early in the tech tree without need for upgrades, and two 6pdrs are enough to carry the faction all the way through the lategame with mine support. Piats, AEC, Bofors, 17pdr, Firefly, even the Comet, don't provide sufficient advantages in many situations over the cheap and early 6pdr to be worth buying. Fuel is better off spent on anti-infantry (centaur, croc, etc) backed up with 6pdr walls.

true that, the 6pdr hits like a truck

British AT options in 1v1 suffer from one major problem above all- the extreme strength of the 6pdr.

6pdrs come early in the tech tree without need for upgrades, and two 6pdrs are enough to carry the faction all the way through the lategame with mine support. Piats, AEC, Bofors, 17pdr, Firefly, even the Comet, don't provide sufficient advantages in many situations over the cheap and early 6pdr to be worth buying. Fuel is better off spent on anti-infantry (centaur, croc, etc) backed up with 6pdr walls.

We should probably assume that what you describe is intended as both ostheer and soviets work exactly in the same way.

I really think the reload speed needs to be reduced a bit, maybe the tulip stats need to altered as well. something about that tank is a bit off.

Any buff to firefly should come with a nerf to the tulip rockets. One shotting medium tanks (assuming the main gun hits as well) is already really powerful.