Current State of Balance

Volks can get lmg42s and have fausts? When did that get patched in?

He says Volks but he seems to be talking about Grenadiers.

The problem is you can't afford a PIV and a StuG III, the PIV locks you into having a unit putzing around that doesn't scale well when facing off against heavies/advanced tanks like the ISU/IS2/Churchill variants/Comet/Easy Eight/T34/85 because it's pen is sub par for what your paying for.

Basically a lot of the issue lay in Ostheer T3 being very expensive, and the USF 75mm low velocity Sherman having the exact same pen for lower cost on it's AP shells with the added bonus of the ability to switch to HE shells that are great for wiping low model count Ostheer squads right off the map.

The solution lay in two things; either making the PIV better in pen or something else or lowering it's cost. It was suggested in the other thread putting the Ost one at 115 and OKW at 125.



But no other army in the game has to make this sacrifice. Conscripts get AT nades, molotovs, better veterancy, and doctrinally they get an AI upgrade. USF can put basically anything on it's mainline infantry (and doctrinally add the ability to put down Schu mines). Brits can also put any variety of upgrades they want on their mainline infantry as well.

Simply put, Volks are the only basic infantry in the game with neither a doctrinal upgrade or a selection of upgrades period. This of course isn't getting into the fact Volks scaling got a huge kick in the nuts with the Conscript and Rifle scaling buffs.

But no other army in the game has vet 5 and the ability to put base buildings on the map.

Volks do need some minor nondoctrinal anti-infantry upgrade, but your argument justifying it is flawed.

Volks can get lmg42s and have fausts? When did that get patched in?

Read; Volks not Grens.

ostheer grenadiers have always been and will always be "volks" to me... sorry for that.

But no other army in the game has vet 5 and the ability to put base buildings on the map.

Volks do need some minor nondoctrinal anti-infantry upgrade, but your argument justifying it is flawed.

That whole vet 5 thing is starting to look really lackluster. all mainline allied infantry have WAY better vet then the volks and is rivalled by obers vet. but obers need a shitload of experience to vet up compared to the allied infantry.

Farm them.

But when I farm with OKW I get usf bulletins, okw duplicates or brit bulletins

But no other army in the game has vet 5 and the ability to put base buildings on the map.

Oh tech buildings on map. Just say hello to RAF and his planes. Murica and Brits still can set up forward retreat positions which is pretty the same as okw base building.

Imagine how volks would be shitty if they wouldn't have 5 vet. Smeels like you are allies fanboy, aren't you?

I like the discussion, minus some of the ad hominem going around.


Everything I've looked at recently and in this thread are about what I've seen too in the state of balance.

Just finished up a twenty minute game, Ostheer v Brits:

•  
  

  0

  VS

  ferwiner

  ~TAB~ GBPirate

  1v1 Angoville Farms

  by: Gbpirate map: Angoville

  1

  -

Aggressive sniper + grens to keep me mobile worked out well. Would've been better with G43s but, hey.

After watching OCF today and yesterday, I'm starting to crawl out of the "camp a VP, fuel, and muni point and pray for armor" mindset and play more aggressively.


I like what dasheepeh said in his list of things. SU76 does overperform. Penals really aren't that great.


I see a theoretical use for them in a 4-conscript build in an urban setting, replace one con with a flamer-penal to help flame out houses. Then, you would tech to T2 and get an AT gun. Then at nades and molotovs. Thus, you've got a strong, mobile force able to take out infantry and vehicles. Add in a mortar, MG, 120mm mortar, guard or shock troops and you're good to go.

I think the lower tier cost really opens things up for soviets.
It's amazing, really, that Soviet play went from building 1 or 2 structures and then call in rape meta to the potential (or necessity) of building all 4 tier structures.



In all honesty, I really wish Relic could just nerf stats on WFA indirect fire rather than eliminating the direct/indirect fire feature. It really was nice being able to fight back against infantry charging the position.

But no other army in the game has vet 5 and the ability to put base buildings on the map.

1. The British kind of do (excellent scaling)
2. The British do.

But no other army in the game has vet 5 and the ability to put base buildings on the map.

Volks do need some minor nondoctrinal anti-infantry upgrade, but your argument justifying it is flawed.

Vet 5 doesn't matter when the bonus's it gives are worse. In the case of Brits and Recently Rifles/Cons they have more squished into less levels.

one major issue is ostheer in particular infantry is just not that survivable late game. good damage, but those vet 3 grenadier and PG squads tend to get rocked fairly quickly with their 4 model squads

I hope that relic saw the problems that we see while they were watching the OCF

regarding OKW vet. if you have a smaller pie, cutting it into more, thinner slices, doesn't make the pie bigger...

ISG and Pack Howie are nuts at the moment. Too reliable accuracy and suppression, it often pins as well. The ISG range at vet 1 becomes just ridiculous. It doesnt need the +15 range at all.

All churchill tanks still have too much hp, should be brought down to 1280.

Panzergrens might need a slight DPS buff.

SU76 is currently too good for its cost.

Rework Penals, give them a long range profile or just buff their rifles, do something meaningful to them.

Give the P4 either a cost reduction or a pen buff.

Buff Mech Company and Recon Support Company.

Overhaul Soviet Industry.

Give Volks slightly better vet bonuses to boost their anti infantry viability in the lategame or just give them an AI upgrade that locks the AT upgrade out.

NERF CENTAUR

Slightly reduce the cooldown on brace.

Buff the M8A1 Scott.

Agree
In addition,
USF - buff the Sherman Bulldozer, main gun was nerfed at some point and doesn't seem to do a lot, should also have more hit points or better armor

USF - better received accuracy for assault engineers, 280 mp for a really fragile unit means that you have to pay a lot for a unit that has probably less utility than a 160 mp Ost pioneer.

USF- let IR pathfinders drop arty at max vision - they now have to walk into the Panzer Schwerer's range to drop arty on it

USF- either give fighting position some hp and smaller hit size, or reduce the cost to the number of seconds that it lasts once a P4 starts shooting at it (8-12). This would really help late game holding ability. Also, make it so grenades don't wipe squad inside fighting position

OKW- make upgrade choice between shrek and lmg for Volks(if you have a bad start in 1v1, can be very difficult to get Obers out)

OKW- buff Falls (really seem to underwhelm against UKF)

OKW- range or something for raketenwerfer - is really annoying to dominate a game then have Croc come out at 30 minute and completely change the game

OKW- make smoke available to help with maxim spam

For the crocodile problem I always have my fortification doctorin buddy!

For the crocodile problem I always have my fortification doctorin buddy!

I don't get what you mean. Do you even think that Pak88 would do something vs Brits?

uuhm yes. Yesterday I totally shut down 2 brits players in a 4v4. 1 Pak 43 made them scare like shit and to be save I made a 2nd which totally crushed their Croc + normal Churchill play. LeIG took out the rest of the infantry. Done. Just need to have time into your favour and you can blast all brits out. Hopefully they won't go commando doctrine, since the rape from the LeIG means they get CP's fast.

I'm back wondering if swapping the PaK gun with the Wehrmacht Sniper would be a good idea. It would prevent the sniper from dominating the British and Americans in the early-game while helping Wehrmacht players deal with Allied light vehicles in the mid-game.

It seems to me that this change, along with a moderate decrease in the cost of the Wehrmacht T2 building and a moderate increase in the cost of the T3 building, might fix a lot of meta-game problems.

Vet 5 doesn't matter when the bonus's it gives are worse. In the case of Brits and Recently Rifles/Cons they have more squished into less levels.

That's not the point, I'm for a nondoc x2 MP44 package on Volks anyway. If your argument directly related to the poor effectiveness of Volks within the OKW faction than it would have been valid; simply pointing out features of other factions and saying "I want" isn't a logical justification for anything, especially in a game with largely assymetric balance.

I'm back wondering if swapping the PaK gun with the Wehrmacht Sniper would be a good idea.

Well, you convinced me. It would also increase Ostheer's tech flexibility somewhat, always a good thing.

However, the M3 starts would be a thing of history. Cpt. Molo would have to find another strat.

That's not the point, I'm for a nondoc x2 MP44 package on Volks anyway. If your argument directly related to the poor effectiveness of Volks within the OKW faction than it would have been valid; simply pointing out features of other factions and saying "I want" isn't a logical justification for anything, especially in a game with largely assymetric balance.

well aren't you a hypocrite. I can remember that few months ago every single allied fanboy was complaining about volks vet 5. Well it has returned on units able to carry lmg's bars and ppsh's and smashed into 3 levels of vet instead of 5. and now its asymmetrical balance?

For starters we need to remove the recent vet buff from rifles and cons.

For the soviets they have far to much momentum with their quad rush. moving the quad to tier 4 would be good idea. also despite idiotic complaints about the m42 over performing i still see 3-4 maxims every game. its best we take the mg34 route and reduce the damage (and reducing the xp need to vet as well of course)