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Those stupid leiG spam

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28 Sep 2015, 13:35 PM
#201
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 07:52 AMJohnnyB

Or a ppsh blob? Or 2 commando squads one next to the other? Or 2-3 shock troops squads massed? Or... Or....?


I'm quite sure we're not talking about comp stomp games, so I don't know why you're here.

And its not like ISG is the only thing for OKW to counter infantry. Have you ever tries using AA HT? Or Luchs?

ISG is batshit OP, there is no denying it, there is no defending it, just a couple of incredibly biased jerks stuck in their own small worlds, defending it zealously like they were defending Hitlers bunker themselves. You're one of them.

And if you're such a fan of blobbing, shreck volk spam with 2 long range elite infantry of your choice works as good as ever unless opponent applies proper counters, which are harder to pull off, because volks just happen to counter most of them.
28 Sep 2015, 14:13 PM
#202
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 13:35 PMKatitof


I'm quite sure we're not talking about comp stomp games, so I don't know why you're here.


Even if that would be true, I would still be more entitled than you to talk about this game. Because that would mean that I am actualy playing it, unlike you.

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 13:35 PMKatitof

And its not like ISG is the only thing for OKW to counter infantry. Have you ever tries using AA HT? Or Luchs?


Yes, sure, so my fuel will be spent on vehicles to counter your batshit blobs, fuel that I will hardly need in late game to build at most 2 Panthers in order to resist to your 5-8 T34s or churchill or what ever. Nice try.

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 13:35 PMKatitof

ISG is batshit OP, there is no denying it, there is no defending it, just a couple of incredibly biased jerks stuck in their own small worlds, defending it zealously like they were defending Hitlers bunker themselves. You're one of them.


When you are searching for a definition for "incredibly biased jerk" just look in the mirror. You will be closer to the meaning of this expression than I can ever be. Spread your shit somewhere else, I don't buy it.

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 13:35 PMKatitof

And if you're such a fan of blobbing, shreck volk spam with 2 long range elite infantry of your choice works as good as ever unless opponent applies proper counters, which are harder to pull off, because volks just happen to counter most of them.


Wow you are more clueless than I believed. So OKW blobs still dominates COh2 huh? Did you update your game yet or you are just lost in comrade's Stalin walpaper contemplation?
Phy
28 Sep 2015, 14:27 PM
#203
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2015, 18:01 PMJohnnyB


Partisans were "fixed" not "balanced" because that's what they needed, being very very broken. In fact, I doubt that even now they are ok.
Judging about the amount of bitching about ISG around here - including yours, I am absolutely convinced it wil be nerfed into oblivion with the next patch, so don't worry to much about it. Everybody who relied in their games on 2+ ISGs will lose their supremacy and will have to come back to struggling like hell against allied spam.


I don't like how howie is performing neither -as I clearly said in my post-. But I can see that leig is far more abusive than howie because of range, price and sinergy with army -flak ht and okw having best counters to support weapons than usf-. I'd be ok with a nerf in both units -specially in terms of supression-. The thing is that you can not see the same as me because you're an axis fanboy, and I'm ok with it, but not with you having voice in a serious balance argue.
28 Sep 2015, 14:31 PM
#204
avatar of GhostTX

Posts: 315


jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 04:58 AMKeaper!
I think the worst part of the current double ISG dynamic isn't even the range/insta pin/damage, it's the fact that it requires no micro and it's pretty much a build and forget unit. You can just park in a defensive position by your trucks and watch it rack up kills and win engagements for you, not to mention hard-counter any emplacement/building/defensive position/etc.

As USF the only counter play that I've found is to match the isg bs with your own pack howie bs. It's harder since howie comes out later and it's harder to get two, but possible if you position them well. It sucks but at least you can outplay it.

Priest is doctrinal, comes out way late, takes valuable resources better spent otherwise, and is not a reliable counter without direct vision. Sames goes for katty (other than doctrinal part.) Poor brits are dead in the water unless you can somehow manage a centaur flank or something, I don't think you can do anything other than hope to capitalize on an blunder/misposition.

Problem with Howies is they're T3, expensive, no armor protection and you can't camp it near a ambulance for it's healing, because OKW will have a Stuka for counter arty that'll just squad wipe the howie's in one shot.


jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 07:52 AMJohnnyB


And what extreme micro effort must a BAR blob do? Or a ppsh blob? Or 2 commando squads one next to the other? Or 2-3 shock troops squads massed? Or... Or....?

I experienced those cheese things. Just right click left and right around enemy infantry and the high dps weaposn will do the trick without needing any use of grenade, smoke, or other things like these. If I try to do the same thing with sturmpios I will not obtain the same effect. Or with volks. Or with grens. I can do that only with AGs and IR stg Obers because their accuracy on the move is still ok, AGs have 5 models and Obers are more resistant. While 5-6 squad men for soviets and USF are very fit to be used like this. So Axis micro is nothing less than allied micro, Axis having its cheese way for infantry fights also, translating into lmg A+Move blob which is as cheese as dancing Bar blobs for instance.

So let's not exagerate here, if you want cheese with a faction, you can get it.


I'm not in favor of blobbing at all. Just saying OKW can do it with out worrying about it for most of the game. ISG come out way early compared to the Howie and OKW doesn't have to manage it's units nearly as much. ISG, insta-pin, take OKW blob and mop up USF.

I'll argue that Axis doesn't have to micro near as much as USF. OKW sturm pios early game? Come on, that' nearly a click and forget unit in early game.
28 Sep 2015, 14:37 PM
#205
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:27 PMPhy


I don't like how howie is performing neither -as I clearly said in my post-. But I can see that leig is far more abusive than howie because of range, price and sinergy with army -flak ht and okw having best counters to support weapons than usf-. I'd be ok with a nerf in both units -specially in terms of supression-. The thing is that you can not see the same as me because you're an axis fanboy, and I'm ok with it, but not with you having voice in a serious balance argue.


Well, being an axis "fanboy" more or less, turns me into a player that knows what these factions are actualy. And seeing how you imagine that a ISG + flak HT is possible without being murdered in lategame makes me smile. Just sayin'.
28 Sep 2015, 14:40 PM
#206
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:31 PMGhostTX


Problem with Howies is they're T3, expensive, no armor protection and you can't camp it near a ambulance for it's healing, because OKW will have a Stuka for counter arty that'll just squad wipe the howie's in one shot.



I'm not in favor of blobbing at all. Just saying OKW can do it with out worrying about it for most of the game. ISG come out way early compared to the Howie and OKW doesn't have to manage it's units nearly as much. ISG, insta-pin, take OKW blob and mop up USF.

I'll argue that Axis doesn't have to micro near as much as USF. OKW sturm pios early game? Come on, that' nearly a click and forget unit in early game.


USF is realy hard to micro, I hear you. It's the most micro intensive faction may I say, but they are the exception. For some strange reason, Relic made USF very hard to play if you realy are the "combined arms" type. Buuuut.... if you are not, things change. Build your blobus santctus with bars and zookas together with an AT gun or two and see if anyone can realy touch you.
28 Sep 2015, 14:42 PM
#207
avatar of hannibalbarcajr

Posts: 503

I mainly play Ost and SU but I totally agree about their being no micro required on ISG. Even blobs have to be controlled to avoid off map, grenades, etc. but ISG is actually best when it just sits and auto fires. It should be like mortar in that it auto fires more slowly and if you want fast firing you use barrage ability. I don't want units to require tons of micro for the sake of taxing them but an artillery unit should never be so good that you can just park it and forget. Mortars ML-20s, LEIG's, Katy etc all require some intervention to get use out of them and so should ISG.
28 Sep 2015, 14:42 PM
#208
avatar of GhostTX

Posts: 315

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:40 PMJohnnyB


USF is realy hard to micro, I hear you. It's the most micro intensive faction may I say, but they are the exception. For some strange reason, Relic made USF very hard to play if you realy are the "combined arms" type. Buuuut.... if you are not, things change. Build your blobus santctus with bars and zookas together with an AT gun or two and see if anyone can realy touch you.


ISG's can... (1 or 2 shot an AT gun, in fact)
28 Sep 2015, 14:43 PM
#209
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:13 PMJohnnyB


Wow you are more clueless than I believed. So OKW blobs still dominates COh2 huh? Did you update your game yet or you are just lost in comrade's Stalin walpaper contemplation?


Since you told us earlier in this topic that you only blob to punish your opponent blob, you are confirming us that Axis blob is superior to Allied whatever unit blob.


28 Sep 2015, 14:44 PM
#210
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:42 PMGhostTX


ISG's can... (1 or 2 shot an AT gun, in fact)


That's the problem. ISGs can, and they are doing it to well for their own good. Without them, it will be exactly the opposite, OKW would be steamrolled.
28 Sep 2015, 14:47 PM
#211
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:43 PMEsxile


Since you told us earlier in this topic that you only blob to punish your opponent blob, you are confirming us that Axis blob is superior to Allied whatever unit blob.




Did I say that I do that with Axis units!? Did I? Please quote me. You are saying this because you are supposing I play Axis exclusively, isn't it?
28 Sep 2015, 14:50 PM
#212
avatar of Keaper!
Donator 11

Posts: 135

Honestly I'd be happy if at the very least they added some actual gameplay mechanic to it. Maybe it could only auto-fire in the cone of fire you point it towards (like an mg)?

The frustration isn't about the stats or anything, it's the fact that a dirt cheap and easily accessible unit can have such a massive impact on the game without you actually having to play it. These "oh look I wiped a squad" and "oh I guess the isg sniped my sniper" moments really need to go.

The same goes for the pack howie to a lesser extent. The frustration is the same but howie at least has less range and can't camp behind med/flak truck and fire into your base.
28 Sep 2015, 15:01 PM
#213
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Pack howie does some insane dmg at vet 2, which would probably make it equal to the LeIG
28 Sep 2015, 15:11 PM
#214
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Pack howie does some insane dmg at vet 2, which would probably make it equal to the LeIG

Exclusively with long cooldown, inaccurate barrage.

Default fire is completely unaffected.
28 Sep 2015, 15:31 PM
#215
avatar of GhostTX

Posts: 315

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:50 PMKeaper!
Honestly I'd be happy if at the very least they added some actual gameplay mechanic to it. Maybe it could only auto-fire in the cone of fire you point it towards (like an mg)?

The frustration isn't about the stats or anything, it's the fact that a dirt cheap and easily accessible unit can have such a massive impact on the game without you actually having to play it. These "oh look I wiped a squad" and "oh I guess the isg sniped my sniper" moments really need to go.

The same goes for the pack howie to a lesser extent. The frustration is the same but howie at least has less range and can't camp behind med/flak truck and fire into your base.

Maybe not auto-turn as well in that facing, too, like the MG?

I wish they'd die as easy as a pack howie. I managed to get one unprotected with vet 2 rifle squad armed with a 1919 at point blank and it took a good 6-10 seconds to kill the men on the ISG.


jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:44 PMJohnnyB


That's the problem. ISGs can, and they are doing it to well for their own good. Without them, it will be exactly the opposite, OKW would be steamrolled.

And that should be the barrage ability, not the "hey, I barely saw it and can auto-sniper fire on it"
28 Sep 2015, 15:42 PM
#216
avatar of hannibalbarcajr

Posts: 503

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:50 PMKeaper!
Honestly I'd be happy if at the very least they added some actual gameplay mechanic to it. Maybe it could only auto-fire in the cone of fire you point it towards (like an mg)?

The frustration isn't about the stats or anything, it's the fact that a dirt cheap and easily accessible unit can have such a massive impact on the game without you actually having to play it. These "oh look I wiped a squad" and "oh I guess the isg sniped my sniper" moments really need to go.

The same goes for the pack howie to a lesser extent. The frustration is the same but howie at least has less range and can't camp behind med/flak truck and fire into your base.

+1 I'm all for making units as user friendly to micro as possible so the game isn't like Starcraft where insane APM is critical to being good. But a unit that has better range than mortar and does suppression should at least have to be turned towards enemy units before auto targeting. If they made that then they can slightly nerf suppression and leave ROF the same. If they keep auto turn and target then they should nerf auto fire ROF and again slight nerf to suppression.
28 Sep 2015, 15:54 PM
#217
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

When even Alexander is saying that ISG is OP you know its bad.
Phy
28 Sep 2015, 17:05 PM
#218
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:37 PMJohnnyB


Well, being an axis "fanboy" more or less, turns me into a player that knows what these factions are actualy. And seeing how you imagine that a ISG + flak HT is possible without being murdered in lategame makes me smile. Just sayin'.


LEIG+FlAK TRUCK. My bad :p:p:p

28 Sep 2015, 17:10 PM
#219
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

As I said before (I have no clue why this thread is still going), the Pack Howi and ISG (Both are equally stupid right now with the ISG being super accurate but the Pack Howi having an insane AoE and ROF comparatively) need to have suppression remove from their basic auto attack and have their ROF/Accuracy/AoE normalized between the two.

Have the suppression come from the barrage (and give both a huge cooldown on barrage), doing a lot of suppression over a wide area but with like only 20 damage. That way you chose between crowd control with the barrage or focused damage with auto attack.

28 Sep 2015, 17:15 PM
#220
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

Leig has too short cooldown on the barrage anyways. That should also be looked at. 95% uptime or some bullpudding.
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