Those stupid leiG spam

So it is bad to want a fair unit for the cost? No one wanted the LeiG and Pack Howie to be OP, but given a SMALL performance buff. The problem is Relic with there massive unit stat changes and ninja buffs. Don't blame players for wanting good units, while Relic is swinging their patch bat around like drunk frat baseball.

Relic likes to overbuff things to get people using them so they can better decide how to nerf it later.



Personally I think the suppression is annoying, but I don't think these guys are as devastating as everyone claims. If someone spends all their manpower on ISG's in team games you can easily flank them with some SMG's and decrew all of them in seconds.

Relic likes to overbuff things to get people using them so they can better decide how to nerf it later.



Personally I think the suppression is annoying, but I don't think these guys are as devastating as everyone claims. If someone spends all their manpower on ISG's in team games you can easily flank them with some SMG's and decrew all of them in seconds.

How do you flank units with 360 degree suppression and pin point accuracy? He should see you coming long before you get close and suppress your men. Even if he doesn't he may be near a Schwer HQ and if not that decrew is just a delay. He will recrew with volks and have them firing in 20-30 seconds. Against Brits there is zero way to get close to decrew these in the early-mid game. You don't have the MP and squads to do so.

Guns are overperforming by about 10 miles.

with what kind of statistics u want to balance then? i see no alternatives, u need hard data and cant just say "hm this units feels stronk, this feels weak lulz"

ofc winrate is not everything, but its a keyfactor with popularity and winrates spread across the skill levels.

I don't want to go into detail and start a seminar regarding statistics becuse majority of it will be lost here and frankly not needed.
It is a rule of thumb however that you need very big sample to make your calculations accurate enough otherwise it's just lottery. A sample size of 100 is nothing not to mention that this sample can't be even compared as so called skill difers from player to player therefore 100 OKW players aren't equal to 100 Soviet players skill wise and so on. Even the popularity of a faction can affect the score as we observed with UKF launch.

Quite frankly it makes the game boring to the point where I might just stop playing after having picked it up again for the brits.

The ISG basically means you can't use infantry, weapons teams or emplacements. That leaves you with basically nothing until you can get tanks and if the OKW has half an ounce of sense they'll have something to deal with those when they arrive.

I don't want to go into detail and start a seminar regarding statistics becuse majority of it will be lost here and frankly not needed.
It is a rule of thumb however that you need very big sample to make your calculations accurate enough otherwise it's just lottery. A sample size of 100 is nothing not to mention that this sample can't be even compared as so called skill difers from player to player therefore 100 OKW players aren't equal to 100 Soviet players skill wise and so on. Even the popularity of a faction can affect the score as we observed with UKF launch.

of course statistics needs alot of samples, but what are the alternatives ? appearently they are not balancing to statitics atm and you see the mess the right now? maybe its because of the launch of brits and things need fixing, doenst explain the high win/popularity rate usf and soviet have though.

Can we not have this off topic discussion here please? I've told you what I know and how statistics work. It's mathematics and the rules are quite strict and established by people way smarter than you or me. This is how it works. Big sample - accurate results, small sample - lottery. Also sample needs to be uniformly equal.

Quite frankly it makes the game boring to the point where I might just stop playing after having picked it up again for the brits.

The ISG basically means you can't use infantry, weapons teams or emplacements. That leaves you with basically nothing until you can get tanks and if the OKW has half an ounce of sense they'll have something to deal with those when they arrive.

The best methods I've had success with in countering this tactic is SU76 and Katy barrage as soviets and commandos sneaking up on the ISGs and throwing a gammon bomb behind them so that if they start back away from my they hit the bomb and if they move forward or stay put they wiped by my charging commandos. The latter being the most rewarding experience in a long time.

I've literally had my commando squads one shotted from full health more times than I can count by this thing.

Just LOL at Lelic and their balancing. Absolutely, fucking, LOL.

Commandos become a bit useless as an ISG counter once they get the panzer HQ up though. That and even if you kill the crew, he'll just recrew it again when you leave.

The only thing that I've found that even half works is arty commander + anvil tactics. If they're in the open it should kill the crew and wreck the weapon. It's another mid-late game solution to an early game problem though (+ nearly everything else on that commander sucks horribly).

The best methods I've had success with in countering this tactic is SU76 and Katy barrage as soviets and commandos sneaking up on the ISGs and throwing a gammon bomb behind them so that if they start back away from my they hit the bomb and if they move forward or stay put they wiped by my charging commandos. The latter being the most rewarding experience in a long time.

It's good on the paper but fails during game.


SU76 spam is not bad but will suffer from Volks blob and raketens/paks.
Katy is best way but it's very likely that your bleed will so big that once you'll get a Katy it'll be too late.
And gammon bomb (even if you stay in cloak next to schwerer) won't destroy gun itself so Volks will be able to simply recrew it again.

___

Yesterday I had most stupid game 2v2 game ever.
2x OKW on Minsk Pocket.
Two Volks blobs with schrecks + 3 IGSs for each player covered by 2 Schwerers and supported by 2 med trucks.

Volks blob jsut making A-move into my troops which were consantly suppressed by 6 ISGs shooting left and right. From a spot between fuel and middle VP they were able to shoot everywhere they needed to.

Vehicles? Volks blob. Infantry? 6 shells every few secs suppressing almost everything everywhere.

Just insane.

ISG spam on Arnhem checkpoint = don't even bother trying to cap the VPs as USF, you lost lmao.

It's way too good for its cost, and it NEVER misses a single shot. It's way too devastating and it's ruining all modes of the game. I don't mind the pack howitzer getting a slight nerf and a MP decrease if the ISG gets nerfed to something sensible

Hah.

A laser guided bomb traveled across the map towards my Russian sniper team who were in full retreat and managed to land smack dab in the middle of them blowing them both to bits. I wish I had the replay because I honestly could not believe my eyes, I thought they had fixed the whole "heat seeking shell" thing but apparently not. I recall when OKW first launched there were hilarious BS shots that rolled a hit and the shell seemed to never miss regardless of distance, but I haven't seen it since.

Regardless I think its time to just give the OKW a fucking MG-42, remove the resource penalty, and get rid of this absurd gameplay with the LIEG. I can't even bring myself to play the British right now because I know I will want to punch a fucking wall playing against it.

This is honestly the worst state the game has been in since... I can't even remember when, possibly Soviet windustry 5 min game overs?

The only faction that seems to stand a chance against this tactic seems to be Americans.

Rush an M20 and wreak havoc with it, while simultaneously attacking from everywhere possible with Rifles and LT. If you get your M20 out fast enough he shouldn't have any AT at all and you should be able to decrew the damn thing and capture it.

I cannot think of any way at all to deal with it as Soviets or Brits.

Soviet light vehicles take way too long, by the time they're out the guy has his Schwerer set up and the ISG is protected by it. Not to mention light vehicles require fuel and good luck getting any with the thing popping at any squads that get anywhere near the fuel points.

Brits are even worse. They have no light vehicles worth a damn at all, and the Centaur, when it finally comes out, will run smack into a Jagdpanzer or Panther.

How about a Soviet 120mm mortar? I tried to use a 1-2 against single leiG , the result is relatively good. However, I play 3x3 and 4x4...

How about a Soviet 120mm mortar? I tried to use a 1-2 against single leiG , the result is relatively good. However, I play 3x3 and 4x4...

120mm mortars are garbage.

I had 2 of them barraging a single LIEG for the better part of 5 min before one of the rounds managed to kill the gun. Then it was simply recrewed again.

They fire too slow and don't have enough accuracy, and if my opponent had been smart he simply would have started shooting my mortars and likely wiped them long before they could have done any damage.

Just got done playing a 2v2 as OKW. Built 3 ISGs and kept them throughout the game, constantly firing and moving (at one point one was decrewed, but I quickly recrewed it). Between both teams I led in kills that game, and my ISGs accounted for half of those kills (91 kills from them). My teammate was only 10 or so kills behind me. Guess who won that game?

Not my team.

While I agree there is some toning down that needs to be done, a lot of the banter on this thread is the typical coh2.org over reaction to relic patch changes - The game is not instantly won for axis upon the arrival of the ISGs like most of the people posting in this thread would like to believe. If any changes are to be made I'd suggest decreasing the amount of suppression dealt on each shot significantly, but leave everything else as it is. The miracle wipes usually happen on pinned squads that are overlapping models; changing the unit so it doesn't instapin would help prevent this.

Nerfing this unit (and the pack howi) into the ground by greatly decreasing their aoe/damage/range/accuracy is not the way to go. It sucks that in the current build OKW relies so heavily on the ISG crutch, but that speaks more towards OKWs bad design rather than how OP the ISG is.

And so ,as the Last Night of the Proms draws ever closer, the organisers of COH2.ORG once again, give appreciation to the Choir Invisibule, who have sung their way gustily, through a forbidding Soap Opera, the Curse of the Leig, which commenced with the enchanting ditty of the Hong Kong Spiritual Choir, led by its world-renowned counter tenor, Porygon:

>>Holycrap it is cancerous, why did they overbuffed it so much?>>

With those haunting thoughts, the opera develops in style..

The hunted observation of the onlooker:

"There are a lot of threads regarding this issue, please don't start new ones."

To which our hero, Porygon, enjoins :

>>Go play a teamgame against axis spam like 6 of them, enjoy. >>

Possibly, one of the most enduring refrains of the 21st century?

After the hero's supporters sing a lusty refrain in support of their ailing hero , the stage devil. Arclyte. bounds from the wings:

>>ISGs are ruining team games. every OKW player makes 2 of them, puts them next to their med / flak truck, and they snipe infantry all game with nazi laser-guided bombs>>

Armed with that amazing fact, the first Act plays out to a rather strange aria, from our new Castrati, VenstreDjevel:

>>Would you rather have a cheaper stuka?>>

Act 2

As the curtain rises for the Second Act, the harrowing refrain emerges from a lesser known Bass on the USA opera circuit, scarab:

>>At this point I actually would trade the removal of the LEIG for a cheaper stuka because a LEIG shuts down infantry movement constantly; the stuka is comparatively easy to dodge and infrequent. Even this sentiment comes from someone who never liked the stuka's magical perfect line shot.>>

Thus primed, the opera moves further into the realms of the absurd, with

>>Brits are completely unplayable vs OKW now. Unless your opponent is terrible.>>

Sad to report, the spirited singing of poster dTox, is overshadowed by the fact that he is now in detox. such is the fate of all p*ss artists.

The opera moves forward, as the emerging talent, Ful4n0, from God knows where, sings in triumph

>>Naaaaaaah, all you wrong.....jhonnyb is the only one to know the truth:>>

And Ful4no is accompanied in this refrain, lustily, by internatinal impresarios, samich and ninja, who can currently be seen performing in the Toronto theatre for the deaf and visually impaired.

As the second Act continues, the main players in the plot emerge, led by the world reknowned American Counter-Tenor,Alexsandver, who trills:

>What about the data for OCF? Allies have a 2:1 win ratio so far.>>

With that devastating challenge, the angry villagers, Arcylte and ghey boi, set forth, to the duet:

>>using the data from UKF opening weeks is retarded>>

The village priest, Nuclear Arbitor sends forth a sweet ditty:

>>just because a faction is weak doesn't mean that faction doesn't have OP stuff.>>

The audience is lulled into a false sense of security, for the angry villagers take this on board, and the inspirational Porygon of the HongKong Spiritual Choir, returns on stage, to recite the haunting aria:

>>Holyshit, I am talking about LeiG spam up to 5 or even 7, and it is solely happening in team-games.>>

Quite how Mozart managed to pen such inspirational lines is even now beyond the comprehension of any avid music lover.

The action moves swiftly on, between minor players,as the mood music intensifies, and the world renowned Castrati, Johny B, springs in from the wings, with the challenging, immortal lines:-

>>Wow, then perhaps remove it from game if it's so bad than nerfing it into oblivion. It would occupy a slot in T2 that could be use to field other unit that maybe will be built. >>

This is a difficult passage for a young opera singer -it requires a deep breath to carry through the whole melody in one delivery, but Johny B manages to carry it off, in a masterclass, as the Second Act draws to a close.

Act 3

At this point in the drama, as act 3 unfolds, we welcome back the Russian Mezzo contralto, Jadame, who spiritedly enters into the refrain:-=

>>Combined arms? Like those which ISG spam ruins hardcore?
I am so mad after playing against this pudding on certain maps, this BS is ridiculous. >>

Such a wondrous sight! Such power! Such anger! Such venom!

In perhaps one of the opera's highlights, Johny B then duets with the furious Jadame, to the accompaniment of a wistful lullaby:

>>Well I am sorry that you got mad playing against ISG, but I suggest trying play as axis against partisan shit especially in 2v2s and tell me how refreshing that was. >>

The fast moving repartee, seldom experienced in Opera, sprints along, as the audience holds its bated breath,,, the sparky minuet of Achtachter, in high descant,

>>100th time I tell this>>

followed by the duller Tin Pigeons's lament

>>multipost, sry for that>>

Act 3 draws to a close....

Act 4

And so the curtain rises for the Final Act of this fascinating theatre, with an intro by Dr Chengele- no relation to Dr Mengele -

>>I am putting everyone in this thread who is saying that ISG is not overpowered and that OKW need its performance on a list.>>

Look Volks!No needles!

The evening's perforamnce reaches a climax, as Alexsandver, the US Counter Tenor, returns to make a haunting plea:

>>This kind of attitude is so cancerous. You know this isn't some sort of race to see who's the biggest grudge holder right>>

The spirited solo performance continues with gusto, until first, Johny B then big Red 1 and Beef Surge join in the chorus, as it rises to a crescendo- all rising talents in the Clan CircleJerk, who have proudly delivered this extended performance for you all tonight-.

But the evening would not complete, without the last minute appearance of the Polish leader of the clan, katifof, whose opening words, basso profundo, still haunt the ear:

>>ISG is batshit OP, there is no denying it, there is no defending it, just a couple of incredibly biased jerks stuck in their own small worlds, defending it zealously like they were defending Hitlers bunker themselves. You're one of them.>>

The sheer poetry of delivery leaves the world's Bass almost unmatched... even the shrill tones of Johny B, or the plaintive, melodic refrains of Alexsandrev cannot match this, for sheer bravura.

The crisp repartee with Johny B:

>>Even if that would be true, I would still be more entitled than you to talk about this game. Because that would mean that I am actualy playing it, unlike you.<<

Sadly this brings tonight's performance to an end. We can only marvel at the sheer energy these performers bring to their parts, night after night, after night after night, after night after night ......endless nights, in fact.

Our thanks again to Katifot and his cast, the guest performance of our opening tenor, Porygon, backed by the Hong Kong Spiritual Choir, whose conductor, Siu King was laid low by Asian flu.

We hope soon to display Mozart's 'Queen of the Night' - an exciting, high pitched duet, featuring the usual suspects.

Until then, the cast of Clan Circlejerk wish you all a happy evening and look forward to performing for you the next time ....will there be a next time, or will they be like Puff the Magic Dragon? Answer: No!

An interlude follows, as the audience stomps out from the vestibules into the night air... you can read their comnents above...