Panzerwerfer - the forgotten Ostheer arty
31 Aug 2015, 09:28 AM
#81
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
im not sure about target tables. it would make units feel inconsistent and it would lead to confusion.
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
31 Aug 2015, 09:42 AM
#82
1 
Posts: 641 | Subs: 1
im not sure about target tables. it would make units feel inconsistent and it would lead to confusion.
yes thats exactly what it did in coh1.
ketetof shudnt b allaud tew tawlk abowt balence hee s biasd
31 Aug 2015, 09:57 AM
#83
Posts: 4928
im not sure about target tables. it would make units feel inconsistent and it would lead to confusion.
Target Tables are for when there is no other solution, like Ost Sniper effectiveness.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
31 Aug 2015, 11:39 AM
#84
Posts: 105
Increase the rockets AoE or allow the barrage to suppress/pin infantry sqauds.
31 Aug 2015, 12:32 PM
#85
Posts: 57
Hmmm, It's actually really good when used properly. It requires more micro sure and seeing that the allies have most of the micro intensive units, I don't see how it should be a problem for the Axis players to micro their werfers. So I do not understand why, because the soviets have the better rocket arty, the werfer should be on par? I mean: the whole ideas of the factions are to be different, both in play style and strengths and weaknesses. If you compare the factions, Ostheer compared to SU have better mortars, mgs, standard infantry, tanks, and AT options. Where the SU have better light vehicles and better arty. I could see it's price being reduced, but not it's effectiveness increased. make the price like 250mp 75 fuel, it'd be fine. Last time I used it, it won me and my buddy the game.
"War is Hell"
31 Aug 2015, 12:47 PM
#86
Posts: 770
Hmmm, It's actually really good when used properly. It requires more micro sure and seeing that the allies have most of the micro intensive units, I don't see how it should be a problem for the Axis players to micro their werfers. So I do not understand why, because the soviets have the better rocket arty, the werfer should be on par? I mean: the whole ideas of the factions are to be different, both in play style and strengths and weaknesses. If you compare the factions, Ostheer compared to SU have better mortars, mgs, standard infantry, tanks, and AT options. Where the SU have better light vehicles and better arty. I could see it's price being reduced, but not it's effectiveness increased. make the price like 250mp 75 fuel, it'd be fine. Last time I used it, it won me and my buddy the game.
Their is a major difference between faction variance and being useless. This unit is useless. its nothing more frustrating then seeing 2 panzerwerfers scoring zero kills in 3 barrages in a AT line while the a mt-ht manages to get 40 kills in or my lefh get 80 kills in and destroys kats su76's and even isu152's
31 Aug 2015, 12:47 PM
#87
Posts: 509
Guys please keep the thread on werfer. Regarding ost t4; yes it can be argued that T4 is a bonus Tier in 1v1. But at the same time, it also contains ost's only core arty. Which is why I suggest it be moved to HQ with the associated fuel costs.
All other factions gain their core arty (such as it is and thats a separate thread and I do sympathize with USF lack of core arty) with normal teching. Ost is the only one which doesn't.
All other factions gain their core arty (such as it is and thats a separate thread and I do sympathize with USF lack of core arty) with normal teching. Ost is the only one which doesn't.
31 Aug 2015, 13:12 PM
#88
Posts: 57
Their is a major difference between faction variance and being useless. This unit is useless. its nothing more frustrating then seeing 2 panzerwerfers scoring zero kills in 3 barrages in a AT line while the a mt-ht manages to get 40 kills in or my lefh get 80 kills in and destroys kats su76's and even isu152's
Well then try using it differently, I got 17 kills in the first barrage last time I used it, the US player was blobbing quite alot.
If you find it useless the way you are using it medium to short range, that's where you need to be.
"War is Hell"
31 Aug 2015, 13:18 PM
#89
Posts: 1355
It is funny that a T1 mortar is at least 10X times more effective than the 85 fuel Peewerfer.'re
The design of concentrated bombardment of almost zero AOE rockets, is a failed design.
Yeh, you are totally right. Funny thing (Relic), you can say the same thing about the M5 and the T34. The M5 costs so much less the the T34 but kicks azz 10 times more/better
31 Aug 2015, 13:19 PM
#90
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
This unit is hard to balance because it functions on squad wipes. By increasing its power it wipes high vet squads easily late in the game without any opportunity to evade (just RNG). On the other hand, if you leave it as is, it will feel useless because it tends to miss frequently.
I would like to see the speed of fire slowed down, the number of rockets increased, and a potential incendiary strike added at vet 1 or 2 (remove counter barrage, this unit is too fragile to sit in one place and engage more static artillery). If other buffs are needed slightly more health would be good. This gives targeted players a chance to move out of the way, but increases lethality on blobs and static defenses.
Current place: This unit is very useful in larger games against late game snipers and high vet weapon teams. Very hard to not lose lots of MP quickly to it.
I would like to see the speed of fire slowed down, the number of rockets increased, and a potential incendiary strike added at vet 1 or 2 (remove counter barrage, this unit is too fragile to sit in one place and engage more static artillery). If other buffs are needed slightly more health would be good. This gives targeted players a chance to move out of the way, but increases lethality on blobs and static defenses.
Current place: This unit is very useful in larger games against late game snipers and high vet weapon teams. Very hard to not lose lots of MP quickly to it.
31 Aug 2015, 13:24 PM
#91
Posts: 509
You are correct. For some reason I was thinking the ZIS-SU76-and T3476 all had the same damage.
IIRC only the su76b does less dmg correct?
31 Aug 2015, 13:34 PM
#92
Posts: 509
It only has 10 rocket pods, so 16 doesn't make sense. Just make the rockets more accurate and / or give them a larger area of effect.
It used to have 16 mate. And the rockets did 160 dmg. Made plenty of sense to us back then
Tbh I'm not advocating a complete reversion. Keep the dmg as it is now, and the reload as it is now. Just increase rockets fired to 16 like it used to be.
31 Aug 2015, 13:36 PM
#93
Posts: 509
This unit is hard to balance because it functions on squad wipes. By increasing its power it wipes high vet squads easily late in the game without any opportunity to evade (just RNG). On the other hand, if you leave it as is, it will feel useless because it tends to miss frequently.
I would like to see the speed of fire slowed down, the number of rockets increased, and a potential incendiary strike added at vet 1 or 2 (remove counter barrage, this unit is too fragile to sit in one place and engage more static artillery). If other buffs are needed slightly more health would be good. This gives targeted players a chance to move out of the way, but increases lethality on blobs and static defenses.
Current place: This unit is very useful in larger games against late game snipers and high vet weapon teams. Very hard to not lose lots of MP quickly to it.
I mostly agree with everything you said there. Except speed of fire decrease. It can't do with slower barrage as it has such short range.
How about increasing the AoE of the rockets, no change to anything else?
31 Aug 2015, 13:40 PM
#94
Posts: 1701
Their is a major difference between faction variance and being useless. This unit is useless. its nothing more frustrating then seeing 2 panzerwerfers scoring zero kills in 3 barrages in a AT line while the a mt-ht manages to get 40 kills in or my lefh get 80 kills in and destroys kats su76's and even isu152's
Alright alright, calm down, thats enough lol
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BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
31 Aug 2015, 15:03 PM
#95
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I mostly agree with everything you said there. Except speed of fire decrease. It can't do with slower barrage as it has such short range.
How about increasing the AoE of the rockets, no change to anything else?
I think the RoF needs to come down because having played against it is the most infuriating thing. When I spread out and get a squad wiped because the rockets fired and hit a squad I clicked retreat.This is also late in the game when vet is most key. The RoF does not have to be extremely low, just enough so that if I click retreat I won't get a squad wiped, I will still lose models, that's fine, but wiping is not.
I agree with you that AoE on the rockets could also be increased slightly that would also help it feel less random overall.
31 Aug 2015, 15:20 PM
#96
Posts: 600
Give it its 16 rocket salvo back and Fixed
Currently it cant even reliably wipe an enemy weapon team in the middle of the radius. Infact alot of the time it paints a circle around said target.
yesterday in a game on Ettlebrook station, I found the USF players Ambulance with his infantry healing up, Major squad, few rifle squads and a Pak howitzer team. Fired my Pwerfer thinking id get some juicy hits...
5 kills... like what the fuck
I KNOW if that was a katy barrage they woulda been massacred.
Its faction opposite the Katyusha, has a far more effective alpha strike being more accurate and having higher AOE. Then follows up with more strikes... Giving huge area denial or making SURE the target squad(s) are dead if they dont retreat. and even THEN often a rocket overshoots and clips a surviving squad trying to retreat.
Im not asking for the pwerfer to be as good as the katy (even tho it comes later and costs the same and has less range)
But it would be nice if you could fire it and rely on it to be effective.
Currently it cant even reliably wipe an enemy weapon team in the middle of the radius. Infact alot of the time it paints a circle around said target.
yesterday in a game on Ettlebrook station, I found the USF players Ambulance with his infantry healing up, Major squad, few rifle squads and a Pak howitzer team. Fired my Pwerfer thinking id get some juicy hits...
5 kills... like what the fuck
I KNOW if that was a katy barrage they woulda been massacred.
Its faction opposite the Katyusha, has a far more effective alpha strike being more accurate and having higher AOE. Then follows up with more strikes... Giving huge area denial or making SURE the target squad(s) are dead if they dont retreat. and even THEN often a rocket overshoots and clips a surviving squad trying to retreat.
Im not asking for the pwerfer to be as good as the katy (even tho it comes later and costs the same and has less range)
But it would be nice if you could fire it and rely on it to be effective.
31 Aug 2015, 15:24 PM
#97
Posts: 80
but that doesnt make sense if there are just 10 tubes to launch them.. it has to be at least a little bit logical
Ze bad germanz are there. Alle Macht den Panzerwerfer 42's.
31 Aug 2015, 15:53 PM
#98
Posts: 2053
It used to have 16 mate. And the rockets did 160 dmg. Made plenty of sense to us back then
Tbh I'm not advocating a complete reversion. Keep the dmg as it is now, and the reload as it is now. Just increase rockets fired to 16 like it used to be.
Why not just launch 10 logically and adjust the rockets to have the same effect? Magic german tubes with two rockets in one tube.
31 Aug 2015, 16:12 PM
#99
Posts: 449
Dammit! I misread the question.
31 Aug 2015, 20:11 PM
#100
Posts: 118
Give it its 16 rocket salvo back and Fixed
Currently it cant even reliably wipe an enemy weapon team in the middle of the radius. Infact alot of the time it paints a circle around said target.
yesterday in a game on Ettlebrook station, I found the USF players Ambulance with his infantry healing up, Major squad, few rifle squads and a Pak howitzer team. Fired my Pwerfer thinking id get some juicy hits...
5 kills... like what the fuck
I KNOW if that was a katy barrage they woulda been massacred.
Its faction opposite the Katyusha, has a far more effective alpha strike being more accurate and having higher AOE. Then follows up with more strikes... Giving huge area denial or making SURE the target squad(s) are dead if they dont retreat. and even THEN often a rocket overshoots and clips a surviving squad trying to retreat.
Im not asking for the pwerfer to be as good as the katy (even tho it comes later and costs the same and has less range)
But it would be nice if you could fire it and rely on it to be effective.
It's again dependent on range. You do have to move the Katy close to have a good effect. If it's firing from max range and I have a half track around I'll just reinforce and move around. If it is close you can move squads out after the first rockets hit as there is a delay and the area being barraged is smaller.
Alright alright, calm down, thats enough lol
?
Seriously, LefH is good against slow/static tanks and will easily finish them on low health as well as stopping repairs.
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