Issues with OKW

Removing conversion and simply adding in Opal trucks (IE more expensive caches) would bee fun, but I doubt you would support that.

For once in my life I can agree with You.

Ehh, I didnt realize conversion was now OP. WHere have these threads been since okw muni rate nerf patch? Is this some hidden shit nobody has noticed?

Ehh, I didnt realize conversion was now OP. WHere have these threads been since okw muni rate nerf patch? Is this some hidden shit nobody has noticed?

Pretty much lol

Wow the amount of backlash is mind boggling. I sincerely apologize lmao. I mean I knew I had it coming, that's why I put that bold text at the end. Didn't help tho apparently. I should've known OKW is a sensitive subject.

But anyways, you guys are drifting away from what I'm trying to get across. I said remove fuel/munitions conversions and increase HQ techs and then I provided reasons for them. The reasons may or may not be the best of reasons, but it still doesn't change the fact that there is something wrong with OKWs ability to convert.

It's like Close Air Support. The whole concept of converting resources to other resources in my opinion is just completely wrong and adds in many issues into the game. I even dislike the concept of Opel Blitz and Caches. Feautures like these things slightly weaken the concept of map control. If you don't have the fuel points but you have munitions, why on earth should you be able to convert the munitions to fuel to make up for the lack of territories. These things play with the very basics and core of the game.

Hmm... let us not forget that TAMPERING WITH RESOURCES RUINS THE GAME.
a) Close Air Support/Ostruppen Doctrine Fuel to Munitions Conversion --> Call-in spam + mines/shrek spam
b) Lend Lease --> M4C Sherman spam
c) Luftwaffe Supply --> Exploit fuel secured maps like Ettelbruck, Lienne Forest, old Semoskiy, etc.
d) Opel Blitz/Cache --> Compound munitions/fuel problem in 4v4s
e) Soviet unreleased No Step Back doctrine --> Ridiculous early game
f) Windustry --> 5 minute T70s, 7 minute T34s

Can I end my statement with a STOP TAMPERING WITH THE RESOURCES DAMMIT!!! IT IS NEVER A GOOD IDEA

It does not matter, there lots of things which play with core mechanics. USF crews, 5vet lvls, troop training, luftwaffe supply drops and such.

OKW already underpowered and pretty much reduced to volkspam, and you want to turn them into USF 2.0.

Seeing how some people here hinted on the Brits totally obliterating OKW in the future patch, I wouldn´t change anything in their design currently. See how it´s going to turn out and bring out an according patch asap after the British release.

Come back when you know how gameplay and mechanics work okay

Changes for OKW:

• Remove Munitions to Fuel Conversion
  
  This has been bugging me for over a year since WFA came out. OKW isn't as fuel starved as people think it is. Pumas, Panthers, Jagdpanzers, all come out very early for OKW if they convert. Jagdpanzers can come out earlier than a Sherman if a USF player like me builds all officers (like how it should be played).
  
  An indirect issue with this has to do with map control as well. If the Allies have both fuel points, OKW can keep both munitions points and still manage.
  
  If OKW was a 100% FU faction, this would be very overpowered because they'd have tanks coming out earlier than everyone. However the issue isn't as blatant and is hiding because OKW is at 66% FU. So tanks don't come out earlier than other factions, but they do come out at the same time. For a faction that was designed on superior tanks than every other faction, this is a staggering issue. OKW should have tanks coming out after every other faction does, not at the same time. Cheap OKW HQs exasperates this issue; I will elaborate on this.
  
  Another issue is in addition to OKW tanks coming out at proper timings, they aren't penalized enough for losing tanks. They have access to beasts like Jagdtigers, King Tigers, Panthers, Sturmtigers, Jagdpanzers, but losing them doesn't matter much because replacing them isn't too difficult. OKW shouldn't have the Soviet and Allies mentality of throwing away tanks and still managing to win.
  
  All you need is the good old munitions to fuel conversion and everything is fine and dandy for the OKW. All they need are Panzershreks anyways.
  
  
• Increase HQ Costs by 50% (300 MP + 60 FU)
  
  You know how MU --> FU conversion nullifies the whole low fuel concept for OKW? It is exasperated by the fact that their HQs are so cheap. Just 200 MP and 40 FU for Mech and Medic HQs and 80 FU for the Flak HQ. Compared to Ostheer, USF, UKF, and USSR, its too cheap.
  
  This also creates issues with risk vs. reward. OKW can manage to be risky with their HQs because there isn't much fuel at stake. Yes, one can argue there is more at stake than just the 200 MP and 40 FU, so this is more of a smaller issue but still an issue that needs to be fixed.
  
  Some people say that their HQs should be cheaper because they are starved faction. This isn't a reasonable justification for cheap HQs. What is the point of fuel starving a faction because they have access to stronger units if you are going to make their techs cheaper?
  
  This essentially gets tanks out really quickly. Do the math, USSR for example requires more fuel to get its T34 out than a Jagdpanzer.
  
  That being said, I want this to be an intellectual discussion please without the "fanboy" "OP" cards with little to no reasoning behind statements. This isn't a flame thread, this is after analyzing the game after 2,000 hours of gameplay. I provided my reasons, so you guys give reasons to why you agree or disagree. And specifics please.
  
  

  EDIT

  
  
  Wow the amount of backlash is mind boggling. I sincerely apologize lmao. I mean I knew I had it coming, that's why I put that bold text at the end. Didn't help tho apparently. I should've known OKW is a sensitive subject.
  
  But anyways, you guys are drifting away from what I'm trying to get across. I said remove fuel/munitions conversions and increase HQ techs and then I provided reasons for them. The reasons may or may not be the best of reasons, but it still doesn't change the fact that there is something wrong with OKWs ability to convert.
  
  It's like Close Air Support. The whole concept of converting resources to other resources in my opinion is just completely wrong and adds in many issues into the game. I even dislike the concept of Opel Blitz and Caches. CAS, USSR Lend Lease, Luftwaffe Supply, and OKW conversions is just an extreme version of it. Features like these things slightly weaken the concept of map control. If you don't have the fuel points but you have munitions, why on earth should you be able to convert the munitions to fuel to make up for the lack of territories. These things toy with the very basics and core of the game.
  
  

NorthWeapon, I would ask how you see caches then, but I'm already scared of the answer.

Wow the amount of backlash is mind boggling. I sincerely apologize lmao. I mean I knew I had it coming, that's why I put that bold text at the end. Didn't help tho apparently. I should've known OKW is a sensitive subject.

But anyways, you guys are drifting away from what I'm trying to get across. I said remove fuel/munitions conversions and increase HQ techs and then I provided reasons for them. The reasons may or may not be the best of reasons, but it still doesn't change the fact that there is something wrong with OKWs ability to convert.

It's like Close Air Support. The whole concept of converting resources to other resources in my opinion is just completely wrong and adds in many issues into the game. I even dislike the concept of Opel Blitz and Caches. Feautures like these things slightly weaken the concept of map control. If you don't have the fuel points but you have munitions, why on earth should you be able to convert the munitions to fuel to make up for the lack of territories. These things play with the very basics and core of the game.

Hmm... let us not forget that TAMPERING WITH RESOURCES RUINS THE GAME.
a) Close Air Support/Ostruppen Doctrine Fuel to Munitions Conversion --> Call-in spam + mines/shrek spam
b) Lend Lease --> M4C Sherman spam
c) Luftwaffe Supply --> Exploit fuel secured maps like Ettelbruck, Lienne Forest, old Semoskiy, etc.
d) Opel Blitz/Cache --> Compound munitions/fuel problem in 4v4s
e) Soviet unreleased No Step Back doctrine --> Ridiculous early game
f) Windustry --> 5 minute T70s, 7 minute T34s

Can I end my statement with a STOP TAMPERING WITH THE RESOURCES DAMMIT!!! IT IS NEVER A GOOD IDEA

NorthWeapon while I respect you are sticking to your opinion,in this you are wrong and a lot of other player's seem to agree. All the above complaints about resource doctrines have drawbacks to using them. If they just won you the game then everyone would only be using them (which was a problem with CAS, before the last patch). OKW didn't even get played in large numbers in the last big team game tourney. If anything OKW is still slightly underperforming in the early and mid game (Damn bugged Raketen cloak).

I really think you need to take some more time PLAYING as the OKW before you comment on how the faction is designed.

Quoting entire walls of text only to respond with a one liner should be moderated more harshly. Peace.

I didn't know the OKW conversion converted a huge amount of resources instantly.

I did the math on this; OKW fuel tech costs aren't out of line with other factions considering the very high fuel price they pay due to their reduced income.

I agree that resource conversion kinda messes with that balance.

Their mp costs OTOH....need a mp increase.

Also, to OP: you're not meant to get all three officers as USF. You're supposed to get two; depending on map/match needs and your playstyle. Same for OKW who are also supposed to get three tiers only.

NorthWeapon while I respect you are sticking to your opinion,in this you are wrong and a lot of other player's seem to agree. All the above complaints about resource doctrines have drawbacks to using them. If they just won you the game then everyone would only be using them (which was a problem with CAS, before the last patch). OKW didn't even get played in large numbers in the last big team game tourney. If anything OKW is still slightly underperforming in the early and mid game (Damn bugged Raketen cloak).

I really think you need to take some more time PLAYING as the OKW before you comment on how the faction is designed.

^ this

There are only three changes I would like to see with OKW.

1. Kuble not getting road speed. I hate it so much on some maps when this dam things is at a cut off before your first unit. Even a rushed RE from USF will not beat a kuble to the point.

2. The Medic HQ can't research forward retreat point until another truck is placed and finished building. This is more for team games, which is all I play and this ability on a hard to kill building no less coming out in the first 5 min of the game, runes a lot of map. It lets the OKW player get away with retrating and being back in like 3 mins full health and ready to go again. While everyone else has to go back to base. USF doesn't get there shitter forward retreat point till major tier, so OKW should have to wait to.

3. Last and not least (this is more of a mechanic thing then OKW thing, just they have more units with it) no dam clocking alien bull shit tech on any unit. I mean any JP, Falls, Zis-gun, Stormtroops, JL. Even sniper i don't think should be able to clock with out moving to new cover. JP if nothing else should lose it after the first attack or be rooted for some time to use this ability.

This is really good imo. I almost never see forward med HQ researched before another truck is down anyways, but in big team games I understand. Also 100% agree on changing how the cloaking works.

OKW is horribly designed, thats it..

OKW is horribly designed, thats it..

I wouldn't say that. It's just that having lower fuel income makes them float manpower because ppl want vehicles and not 10 volksquads, which in turn makes reinforcing and getting indirect fire on the field easy for them. People who preserve their units well with OKW tend to have a large pool of MP to take from in late game, whereas other factions tend to bleed more.

Why don't you play OKW alittle, then tell me how they need to lose fuel conversion and have more expensive HQs. It very much seems like an Allied biased perspective. Also, "buying all officers, like how it's supposed to be played" is blatantly false. USF are supposed to be able to skip tiers and still be effective. A major part of the meta has been to skip lieutenant. USF are actually more effective at skipping a tier than Wehrmacht and Soviets, and arguably the OKW as well.

I wouldn't say that. It's just that having lower fuel income makes them float manpower because ppl want vehicles and not 10 volksquads, which in turn makes reinforcing and getting indirect fire on the field easy for them. People who preserve their units well with OKW tend to have a large pool of MP to take from in late game, whereas other factions tend to bleed more.

The fact that most people skip T2-T3 units makes it pretty badly designed.

The fact that most people skip T2-T3 units makes it pretty badly designed.

OKW's not designed to require all 3 trucks. It's not bad design, it's intentional.

OKW T0 covers everything, though. When you include call-in infantry/MG34 the faction has very flexible/skipable teching.

USF, on the other hand, has units that all other armies get in one tier spread in multiple. Only advantage here is combined arms and when you get stuff.