This incremental change is good, and I hope OKW continues in this direction of being brought in line with other factions.
Yeah I actually thought this was a step in the right direction, OKW should become pretty balanced at this rate. |
I don't want OKW being nerfed, I want OKW having drawbacks in their gameplay based on the player decision making. Drawbacks you must exploit to beat them as Brit/USF/Sov.
Ok, fair enough, I agree that because of the current tech setup there's a very 'pre-packaged' feeling to the okw faction as a whole, I mistook your original post's intent. I am all for more risk/reward gameplay. |
I'm really concern about OKW having
1- best starting close combat unit (Sturms) with a price decreased
Sure they had the price decreased, but it's still an appropriate cost. Also, while they're an excellent close combat unit that's just where they're supposed to succeed, it's like saying Riflemen are the best starting mainline unit, it's a fact but not a problem.
2- best stock elite infantry (Obers) cheapest ammo cost/effective LMG
There isn't even any stock elite infantry to my knowledge (besides PzGrens?), what are you even comparing them to, if not call-in units? Because of course they'll be able to beat standard infantry, there's a reason they cost more.
3- best pop out from building elite infantry (falls) full dps right from the bat
What do you mean by best? Are you comparing them to other squads purely by stats? I can easily point to scenarios where partisans, for example, are a better unit. Or the fact that fall's costs are definitely a big hindrance if they sustain even a minor amount of casualties.
Plus, "full dps right from the bat", are you just saying that they have no default weapon upgrades? If so, than that also describes shocktroops, commandos, pathfinders, rear echelons, Lt, Captain, ostruppen, assault grens and even conscripts. I will say though, I agree that house spawning is dumb, if it were up to me, they would have to parachute in and risk damage like paratroopers.
4- best pop out from building sniper squad (Jaegers) full dps right from the bat
First off, they're the only unit that can deploy from a building that can snipe. Also they're supposed to work as a sniper unit for the OKW, that's their purpose. They're a doctrinal unit that ends up filling a void that a sniper unit would. Pathfinders are similar and can place radio beacons while having a bit less dps, equally useful units imo.
5- best long range survivability/dps squad (pfuss) upgrade requiring cheap munition cost
and now
Again, I'd point to comparable squads, paratroopers and their mg upgrade, for example. PzFusiliers are intended to be long range, I don't see how that's unfair.
-6 mainline base infantry squad IA dps buffed and still having shreck upgrade at disposal for the same price
I actually totally agree, the PzSchreck upgrade is a huge flaw in the squad design and should probably be replaced with a snare. Portable AT troops shouldn't be mainline infantry.
-7 Let's do not forget the only vehicle which is cheap and fuel free having good AI dps, fast capping power and good front and back armor.
It costs no fuel because OKW start with no fuel. It falls off after the opening game and capping is in the end not worth having no way to suppress units
Additionally, T1 flak-HT, T2 Luch that not going to be restricted anymore. And still Raken in T0.
If we compare it with USF, it is like putting ATgun TO with no restriction and T1 freely unlocking Zooks, grenades and ambulance.
First, Raken isn't as damaging as the other at guns although the cloaking does need to be looked at, unlocking okw grenades should end up costing roughly 45fuel, (I may be off on the math)zooks are cheaper than schrecks of course, and ambulance is already at tier 0
Volks supported by kubel/sturm are now going to go toes to toes with rifles. Good good.
In what scenario? I'm sure that in some cases volks supported by units that compliment them could beat riflemen before this patch. That's true of any unit.
So my question is what are the OKW drawbacks? Where are the crucial choices you need to take in order to build your strategy if anything is available whenever you go T0/T1 or T0/T2?
Whenever you go T0/T1 or T0/T2 you have ATgun and good AI vehicles. The only decision you make are:
Do I want shreck or puma to support my Raken
shreck's aren't dependent on your choice.
Do I want ISG or Walking Stuka to arty
They're used quite differently, that's like asking if I wanted a mortar or a katyusha
Do I prefer Flak-HT or Luch for IA support
again two units that fight very differently.
Do I prefer heal station or repair station (for free)
Every faction has different ways to heal units and okw is no exception
Nothing really about decision making that impact your gameplay like
Sov going T1 or T2 (aggressive no AT or defensive relying only on cons + callin) + what upgrade to unlock and in which order
Ostheer skipping T1 or T2 (or not but this is the army flavor)
USF going T1 or T2 (AI or AT) + what upgrade to unlock and in which order
I guess I agree. okw is basically the same as ukf right now
I'm not a complete expert on the game of course and I am definitely open to being proven wrong, but I just didn't see how alot of these points made any sense. If I fucked up completely somewhere and like misread then I apologize, I'm not trying to be a prick, these just felt like unfair points. |
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Pretty good looking change so far although I'll echo other posts by saying that Volks should have a snare instead of Pzschreks. |
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I guess if anything is the biggest problem it's the manpower float. Volks would preferably cost more and no longer be single man AT squads with 4 useless members. I think giving volks, as others have suggested, an mp40 upgrade and/or panzerfaust upgrade as well as standard HE grenades and increase manpower cost, would be helpful.
Also I think it would help ease the resource allotment if light vehicles came out more. Weaker armor but with a lower fuel cost would help the manpower float from getting too high.
Finally, just a small preference but I would rather see sturmpioneers with k98s and either an AT rifle grenade or some type of molotov. |
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I actually really like how the Ober's VA is all cocky and full of himself until one of his lines he just breaks down and says,
"Kamerades, I have just tried to be in good spirits for all of you...I am tired of trying"
Same with the sturmpio line that's like,
"Before the war my father told me 'when you give your word, you keep it. It is your actions that define you' How can I possibly face him now after what I've done and what I've seen done to others" |
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I'm gonna echo some previous posts by saying, why are they even on volks in the first place. It fits sturms a whole lot better. Perhaps relic's just trying it out for now and this is still open to change. |
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I'm pretty glad PzGrenadiers have reduced reinforce costs, that's taken forever to add. |
I'd rather they buffed the close range dps to at least make up for the loss in long range dps. The upgrade should make them like squishy shocks, right now the shock ppsh does 50% more damage than the con version. Of course they also get 6 of them instead of 3.
If they don't want to do that maybe they could do something like what katitov said. Maybe a rec acc bonus that only works when they are using Oorah? That would be cool and really help them move in without taking model loss.
Perhaps include an ability similar to the Paratrooper's thompson ability? |
There are only three changes I would like to see with OKW.
1. Kuble not getting road speed. I hate it so much on some maps when this dam things is at a cut off before your first unit. Even a rushed RE from USF will not beat a kuble to the point.
2. The Medic HQ can't research forward retreat point until another truck is placed and finished building. This is more for team games, which is all I play and this ability on a hard to kill building no less coming out in the first 5 min of the game, runes a lot of map. It lets the OKW player get away with retrating and being back in like 3 mins full health and ready to go again. While everyone else has to go back to base. USF doesn't get there shitter forward retreat point till major tier, so OKW should have to wait to.
3. Last and not least (this is more of a mechanic thing then OKW thing, just they have more units with it) no dam clocking alien bull shit tech on any unit. I mean any JP, Falls, Zis-gun, Stormtroops, JL. Even sniper i don't think should be able to clock with out moving to new cover. JP if nothing else should lose it after the first attack or be rooted for some time to use this ability.
This is really good imo. I almost never see forward med HQ researched before another truck is down anyways, but in big team games I understand. Also 100% agree on changing how the cloaking works. |
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