Ostheer Sniper ROF

Then give each model 82 hp then but nerf the receive accuracy like 25%. the reason buff its hp is to prevent from 1 shot wipe from mortar.

2 models with 82 is huge, but I agree with increasing received accuracy for Ost sniper since infantry has hard time killing him early.

Probably, but they could also just increase his target size so that he's easier to shoot.

I think that would increase the chance of being hit by tank shells and mortars, which was not the original intention when they increased his HP.

High HP pool to ignore AoE explosion damage,
increased recieved accuracy for vulnerability to small arms fire despite large HP pool.

Yea that would work.

I'd say standardize the squad sizes across all factions. Make Allies have 6 man squads; axis have 5 man squads (I'm ok with 4 too but they clump too much).

Also, brits have, expensive IS but cheaper Engi squads (who get even cheaper to reinforce at vet3) so while ost sniper is OP for brit IS, one can argue that he's not for engi. And don't forget you can put 2 or 3 lmgs on a brit engi section

Tl: DR there's too much variation in squad reinforce costs; squad sizes etc. Need to standardize first.

Also, brits have, expensive IS but cheaper Engi squads (who get even cheaper to reinforce at vet3) so while ost sniper is OP for brit IS, one can argue that he's not for engi. And don't forget you can put 2 or 3 lmgs on a brit engi section

That logic is hilarious.

Hey, lets buff sov sniper RoF to the level of ost sniper, because ost can build pios and osttruppen!

Tl: DR there's too much variation in squad reinforce costs; squad sizes etc. Need to standardize first.

No, there isn't.
Just couple of detached from reality fanboys and their delusions that their units should be always superior because reasons.

In every RTS game certain units aren't viable vs all factions, there's no reason Ost sniper should be effective vs every allied faction, period.

Could just reduce the soviet sniper team to one soldier with 82HP. Then the spotter could be a muni or MP upgrade that increases the LoS and detection radius of the squad.

Using that formula you could also give every sniper a +25% received accuracy penalty to compensate for the high health. That way snipers will survive random mortars but be less survivable vs infantry than they currently are.

Could just reduce the soviet sniper team to one soldier with 82HP. Then the spotter could be a muni or MP upgrade that increases the LoS and detection radius of the squad.

Using that formula you could also give every sniper a +25% received accuracy penalty to compensate for the high health. That way snipers will survive random mortars but be less survivable vs infantry than they currently are.

I don't think you're in correct thread, because this literally addresses nothing we're talking about.
Its about super high sniper RoF against small, 4 men, most expensive to reinforce basic inf in game(and other less then 6 man squads and their reinforce costs).

Just throwing this out there but isn't counter sniping with the AP Brit sniper viable?

I mean your Ostheer opponent goes for a sniper, just build one, bait it with a Tommy squad and pick the fucker off?

Works pretty well for Soviets.

Allot of worrying about a faction not released yet or played to any great extent. So I'll stick to commenting on the ost sniper vs soviets and Usf.

In general, he is too durable with the health buff and camo. I remember creating a balance thread on the sniper long before he was buffed, the general consensus was he needed a small HP boost back then.

Eventually he got more then double of his original HP, an extra 80 manpower and pios with better sight. I'd suggest bringing his HP down to the 60ish range. So a stiff wind won't kill him like the old days, but neither should he be so durable as he currently is.

I would not be totally opposed to bringing his HP back to 40, considering that the combined arms of ostheer play has received buffs since.

If you nerf his rof, I doubt you'd see him used much vs Usf and very rarely against soviets. Why would you flake around with him in that state when grens scale so well and are less risky. For a long time, the ostheer sniper was a very rare sight, even against Usf.

Regarding his vet ability, meh, 15 more munitions gets you an Lmg. The reason it gets attention now, is because ever since the cover change, infrantry clump even more, so the poor squad spacing means he hits with the force of a grenade you can't dodge and stuns the squad(s).

Just throwing this out there but isn't counter sniping with the AP Brit sniper viable?

I mean your Ostheer opponent goes for a sniper, just build one, bait it with a Tommy squad and pick the fucker off?

Works pretty well for Soviets.

The whole issue was the wehr sniper DID counter your own sniper, he could be built earlier (brits need to tech for their sniper) cloak much quicker and his aim time was much less. Hell all ost needed was a bunch of grens and a sniper and you couldn't do anything as tommy sections are so expensive to maintain.

The bren carrier failed to be an actual counter because it was even more hopeless than the WC51 with even worse pathing. And is wasted MP as soon as ost built a scout car.

Judging by the relic streams brits will be hopeless in 1's unless something is massivly changed (eg tommies getting a snipe ability)

Like I have said before, increase the Ostheer squad sizes to 5 and improve the Soviet snipers so they are equal to Ostheer sniper. Keep the Ostheer squad's dps the same with 5 man as it was with 4, meaning a total dps of 4 men with the now 5 model count.

I hope they won't. I don't like everything being the same. People should be motivated to work around the differences between factions that make the CoH franchise what it is instead of having the same squad sizes, damage profiles and unit types no matter what faction you pick. Your balance idea is uncreative and wrong.

The whole issue was the wehr sniper DID counter your own sniper, he could be built earlier (brits need to tech for their sniper) cloak much quicker and his aim time was much less. Hell all ost needed was a bunch of grens and a sniper and you couldn't do anything as tommy sections are so expensive to maintain.

The bren carrier failed to be an actual counter because it was even more hopeless than the WC51 with even worse pathing. And is wasted MP as soon as ost built a scout car.

Judging by the relic streams brits will be hopeless in 1's unless something is massivly changed (eg tommies getting a snipe ability)

This reminds me of why counter sniping units were scrapped for coh 2? ; ( back in coh 1 snipers were a lot more of a pain in the ass to deal with than currently ), I mean why don't scout vehicles don't have any extra damage vs snipers?

And if the Bren carrier is actually worse than the WC51 then yeah their early game is pretty fucked, although I'll reserve my judgement when the expansion comes out with the balance patch ( if there is some)

P.S: Please nerf the Quad Relic

This reminds me of why counter sniping units were scrapped for coh 2? ; ( back in coh 1 snipers were a lot more of a pain in the ass to deal with than currently ), I mean why don't scout vehicles don't have any extra damage vs snipers?

And if the Bren carrier is actually worse than the WC51 then yeah their early game is pretty fucked, although I'll reserve my judgement when the expansion comes out with the balance patch ( if there is some)

P.S: Please nerf the Quad Relic

well bren is t0 and engineers are t1 or t2. that right there is an issue.

I don't think you're in correct thread, because this literally addresses nothing we're talking about.
Its about super high sniper RoF against small, 4 men, most expensive to reinforce basic inf in game(and other less then 6 man squads and their reinforce costs).

I was responding to the survivability of snipers that was brought up.

If you want to address Ost sniper RoF I'd say wait and see. He was so powerful vs Brits in the alpha that I suspect relic will be forced to nerf his RoF shortly after releasing the Brits to keep the faction relevant.

Brits have enough counters for snipers, but that doesn't change the tact that ost sniper is overperforming.
The rate of fire is too much atm, even a small health decrease would help.

Brits actually have the fastest counter to snipers, the carrier.

Brits have enough counters for snipers, but that doesn't change the tact that ost sniper is overperforming.
The rate of fire is too much atm, even a small health decrease would help.

Brits actually have the fastest counter to snipers, the carrier.

2 Grens and 1 sniper versus any combination of starting Brits units, who do you think is gonna win the engagement?

That logic is hilarious.

Hey, lets buff sov sniper RoF to the level of ost sniper, because ost can build pios and osttruppen!

To counter your shitpost:

Fact: pios aren't mainline combat troops, at least not anywhere near the level of the UKF engineers, which can be and were (in alpha) used as a replacement for IS. Remember UKF weapon racks? Vickers K upgrade from Anvil? Mind you, the whole UKF engineer vs ost sniper was a purely hypothetical one which I posited as a 'someone could argue this' in support of my main point (which you missed entirely ofcourse; but don't worry I put it below too)

Fact: Ostruppen are doctrinal, and I was not comparing any doctrinal units. No point in doing so except in case of Soviets who are designed (as stated by devs) to use doctrinal units are a core of their army rather than as a supplement. [Mind you, I'm fully in favour of a buff for soviet core units; heck redesign soviets if need be]

Also, if you had bothered to read my entire post; my main point was that its better to simply standardize all squad sizes first with corresponding dps adjustments, with the unstated but obvious implication that then we can make better comparisons of things which affect squad size the most (AoE & snipers).

And again, if you had bothered to read; I quite clearly stated that ost sniper is OP to british IS.

I know your brain leaks now and then, but please don't accuse me of fanboyism; I invite you to look up my post history if you so wish.

I'd say the real issue is squad sizes. IS have 4 or 5 mine. Rifles 5. Cons 6. Bloody OH sniper is made for killing con; and thus ends up wiping Rifles and IS.

You nerf his ROF and someone will complain about how its worse against soviets. Can the engine support an extra aim time modifier specifically for USF/UKF?

2 Grens and 1 sniper versus any combination of starting Brits units, who do you think is gonna win the engagement?

the carrier with flame upgrade

Fact: pios aren't mainline combat troops, at least not anywhere near the level of the UKF engineers, which can be and were (in alpha) used as a replacement for IS.

Because replacing IS and reinforcing them causes so much strain on MP that IS became unsistainable-the exact same issue that forces USF players to replace lost rifles with RETs and believe me, they don't do it because RETs are so awesome combatants.

Remember UKF weapon racks? Vickers K upgrade from Anvil? Mind you, the whole UKF engineer vs ost sniper was a purely hypothetical one which I posited as a 'someone could argue this' in support of my main point (which you missed entirely ofcourse; but don't worry I put it below too)

Anvil tripple vickers equipped REs have less firepower then dual bren IS.
Anvil REs are completely invalid for combat out of cover and god forbid someone throws a nade at them.
Been there, tried that, didn't worked.

Fact: Ostruppen are doctrinal, and I was not comparing any doctrinal units. No point in doing so except in case of Soviets who are designed (as stated by devs) to use doctrinal units are a core of their army rather than as a supplement. [Mind you, I'm fully in favour of a buff for soviet core units; heck redesign soviets if need be]

The way ost (doesn't) rely on doctrine made me include them as an option.

Also, if you had bothered to read my entire post; my main point was that its better to simply standardize all squad sizes first with corresponding dps adjustments, with the unstated but obvious implication that then we can make better comparisons of things which affect squad size the most (AoE & snipers).

I did read that, I still don't agree with it.

And again, if you had bothered to read; I quite clearly stated that ost sniper is OP to british IS.

I know your brain leaks now and then, but please don't accuse me of fanboyism; I invite you to look up my post history if you so wish.

Oh I never accused you of fanboyism, reading more then what is written isn't good for mental health either you know.

I've simply pointed out a flaw in your way of thinking, not being able to use your main line infantry just because opponent have a single unit and because you have engineer isn't smartest of excuses and arguments, don't you agree?

the carrier with flame upgrade

Arrives 60 seconds before 222, which doesn't require upgrade now and counters it even faster then in alpha.

2 Grens and 1 sniper versus any combination of starting Brits units, who do you think is gonna win the engagement?

Replace Brits with any other faction and the other faction would lose just the same, werh sniper OP. That's all there is to it.

3 rifles with no upgrades < 2 grens + sniper
3 cons < 2 grens + sniper

It depends on skill of course as well, what position they are in, etc.