Ostheer Sniper ROF

Wow one of the best infantry units in the game getting thrown under the bus for the Rakenten. Ok, whatever.

How is the worst starting basic infantry in the game "The best". They don't out preform Con's till vet 3 (assuming the con's don't vet up at all either). Volks exist to be cappers and shrek toaters.

But seriously the Soviet sniper's aim time is so high that obers walking towards it will be within range before the first model drops. At this point the Soviet player has to retreat. Tip: It may not be a good idea to push on Soviet sniper with high MP reinforcing squads. Falls dropping out of buildings don't care about losing a model, if they do they should be easily trading for 1 or both sniper models.

Obers have 35 range, Sniper's have 50. The time it takes a squad of Obers to close the distance from 50 to 35 is not the same as the aim time on the snipers guns. This of course is assuming your not protecting your snipers. And lol implying that I do that.

Soviet sniper is not as good as Ost sniper, and this is going to be painfully obvious with Brits. When Soviet sniper had sprint it was arguably better, but not now. I play a lot with the Soviet Sniper and I always prefer the Ost sniper.

~opinions~

As OKW I don't care at all about Soviet snipers I just build more volks. Then he has a choice: go Guards to try to stop light vehicles and get a squad that is not optimal to take down infantry and costs him 75 munitions just to do that, or go shocks and be open to getting destroyed by light vehicles, or tech to T2 and slow his run to T3 and build an AT gun (and likely not got T4). Meanwhile I can go med to stay on field or mech to get light vehicles, or ignore that and go to commanders (or if I am really winning go Schwer and get a Luchs to hunt them down).

This isn't a viable strategy in 2v2 and why are you implying Guards are not optimal to take down infantry? They do just fine against enemy infantry for what your paying for (along with getting soft AT in the mean time).

I mean I really can't even say Volk's spam is all that good anymore in 3's and 4's considering the players who did in LoH got their asses kicked.

1.Now OH sniper if it gets hit by mortar rocket truck he just retreats no problem.
2. If squad fires at it at point blank range he just dont care.
3. 1 sec cloak at close range
4. All this available for MP floating faction, that doesnt need to tech cuz of its callins stug e and tiger

- Imagine 1 full HP (+2) entity from a gren squad, its your sniper survival, if you are not able to kill a gren entity at close range, well, strange

- You seem to be stuck on last patch bro, good luck to win in that patch with only Stug E and Tiger, T3 from Soviet say hello and goodbye

Explain us why snipers dont bleed OKW please, OKW have free reinforce now ?

I can't see where a Sov sniper with 50 kills didnt cause OKW to bleed

prev patch when sniper was available. sov sniper was bleeding all oponents just fine.

But now with no possibility to rush T4 you must choose T2 or T1 (alternative chioce is T3 units or T1). The choice of T1 is worst of all most of the time so no sniper for sov in this game.

Prev patch I was making sniper (20-40 kills per sniper) every game now I dont make snipes at all.

prev patch when it was available sov sniper was bleeding al oponents just fine.

But now with no possibility to rush T4 you must choose T2 or T1 (alternative chioce is T3 units or T1). The choice of T1 is worst of all most of the time so no sniper for sov in this game.

I don't really understand what really changed for Sov Snipers in your statement.

- You always had to build T1 or T2, now you have to build T3 too, then T4 ( T3 is cheap, with really strong units inside, where is the prob ?)

Elaborate why T1 is not strong against OKW, i dont understand you, Guards, AT Nades and 5 min into Quad then Su 76 is all what you need for early / Mid AT

Then you can still Build T2, no one forbid you to do so

Then you can still Build T2, no one forbid you to do so

Bilding T2 after T3 dealys T4 - actually its way I play if I choose T1 first (which is rare). But that mean playing with disadvatage - only light vehicles + ATGs vs mediums + ATGs for reaaly long time.

In this case you build all 4 tiers while OH builds only first 3 into callins.

And this long time light tanks + ATGs vs OH mediums + ATGs while teching to T4 while OH doesnt tech just waits. Plus stug callin helps them quite a lot, making faster T3 advantage smaller.

Bilding T2 after T3 dealys T4 - actually its way I play if I choose T1 first (which is rare). But that mean playing with disadvatage - only light vehicles + ATGs vs mediums + ATGs for reaaly long time.

In this case you build all 4 tiers while OH builds only first 3 into callins.

And this long time light vehicles + ATGs vs mediums + ATGs while teching to T4 while OH doesnt tech just waits.

I dont understand you, you are saying that OST is not teching, but he have Tech 3 ? for you T4 its the only "tech" as Ostheer ?

Fight Medium with Su-76, AT nades, Guards, Mines or if you are more a defensive player, you should go T2 first, and ignore T1

ignoring T1 means no sniper you was asking about sniper. And p4 and paks both wipes the floor with su76. So its not an alternative to ZIS only addition to it

ignoring T1 means no sniper you was asking about sniper. And p4 and paks both wipes the floor with su76. So its not an alternative to ZIS only addition to it

Well if you want Sniper, build T1, not a hard thing and its viable ...

I'am just trying to tell you that T1 to T3 is a real thing, if you want we can have a match, then argue about it, in a gentleman way

i dont have a comp with a game here. Monday evening maybe i ll play thanks

Fight Medium with ...Guards,

lol thanks for that advice i will try smth different.

i dont have a comp with a game here. Monday evening maybe i ll play thanks


lol thanks for that advice i will try smth different.

You forget Mines,AT nades,SU-76 in my sentence are you a retard or something ? "Hello i pick 1 word every 4 words and i quote him"

Multiple Sturms has been the meta since the last patch.

What?
3 Volks - MG ; 4 Volks (into JLI/Falls) ; 3 Volks - Kubel. I've seen like 1/15 double Sturms for every other type of opening. Never more than 2.

SU sniper is good against OH, when you can force retreats on squads. Against OKW a "wall" of Volks backed up by anything else is enough to force him to back up after the volley. When people say "rush them with Obers", it means just putting a Volk in the front and charge forward. It follows the same principle of playing with Osstruppen as OH (which is in fact better, cause you have a high damage long range unit which can shoot on the move).

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Since the best solutions are not possible (Damage tables or different Rof against dif squad sizes) i'll go with this:

OH sniper:
-Lower the cost to 340mp
-Lower RoF by 1s/2s
(Slightly altering the cooldown multi n/m/f)
(Still like 2s faster than SU sniper. Account also that you have a 10 mag vs 5mag)
-Add RA to account for the 82hp

SU sniper:
-Make flares vet 0 again
-Vet 1, while stationary and in cover, get increase LOS (60). Look, the spotter is not useless!

Leave the Ost Sniper like it is. No need to totally cripple him versus Soviets again.

In Coh1 we had 3 men PE squads at 45mp per model and nothing was changed about the US Sniper either. Turned out PE could still be played.

Leave the Ost Sniper like it is. No need to totally cripple him versus Soviets again.

In Coh1 we had 3 men PE squads at 45mp per model and nothing was changed about the US Sniper either. Turned out PE could still be played.

And guess what?

US sniper was batshit OP against them, you were forced to spam ACs asap.

And guess what?

US sniper was batshit OP against them, you were forced to spam ACs asap.

So let me get this straight. OST can have a sniper that is fair (certainly effective in case against Soviets due to survivability, veteran 1 incendiary round, and great camo. ) against one Allied faction but is extremely effective, dare I say broken, against both other Allied factions? While on the other hand Soviets have a sniper that is somewhat ineffective against OKW? What the bloody hell! I am going to rant because it is tiresome to be fighting OST as both Soviets and USF with that sniper. I even bloody disregard him as OST, my favorite faction, just because how powerful he is.

So lets start shall we hmm?

He has 82 hp meaning RNG bombs can't one shot him and giving him insane survivability to small arms fire WITH a camo bonus that allows him to simply cloak away from enemy infantry. Case in point is Soviet sniper camo. You can deal damage to Soviet Sniper since he decamo out of cover and you get some seconds. OST Sniper? A half second or so as he simply walks away. This means any chasing means he is damn near immune to infantry fire as they try to force him off the field. This doesn't include having to deal with Grenadiers, HMGs, Pioneers, and mortars up your arse. Oh wait he also has great durability too, not to mention his great veterancy 1 ability. His camo being so great was due to the fact he was previously fragile and if he got caught out he would be quickly gun downed. But now he was 82 HP combined with that camo he is damn hard to kill. Soviet Sniper one advantage over OST was the fact of two models and greater durability. What does he have now? Being squisher and worst in every way. (Rightly so with concerns to stats at least given Soviet Sniper being designed around one faction with almost every squad being 4 man.) Funny how OST sniper got increased of HP due to be fragile or being RNG bombed yet Soviet Sniper can and does all the time due to amazing German mortar and extremely high DPS OKW units.

Veterancy 1 ability is damn near broken thanks to STUNNING enemy infantry AND getting another shot off meaning you can quickly have a 6 or 5 man squad go down to only 3 or so in SECONDS. Sure you can say its 45 munitions but almost instantly making a squad combat ineffective with one sniper? Guess what that does to USF with their high reinforcement cost and which will be even worst for UKF?


You argue OST sniper needs a high rate of fire to be effective against Soviets when you realized that OSt has a extremely effective, cheap mortar that hard counters all Allied weapons. Even bloody other mortars and even 380 MP Howitzers of USF! Even the bloody 120mm which costs more is worst in terms of damage caused. At least it does have a large radius and range. But anyway on back topic. Conscripts don't have a single model with all the DPS on it (*cough* LMG Grenadiers *cough*) that each model plucked off hurts Conscripts damage. Just like Shocks troops who get a sixth of their power instantly plucked off. Only Soviet unit that won't be affected it Guards but just like Shocks their expensive to reinforce which limits their use on the field. OST sniper is good against weapon teams (especially poor USF again due to 4 man weapon teams that cost you a arm and a leg to reinforce.) but he is great against Soviets due to that fact only a few Soviet units have that who damage dealing model. (Penals with Flamethrower which are fragile as bollocks, Guards, and.... and...... 4 man Combat Engineers? Oh lets no forget those damage dealing Partisans!) So that Soviet Sniper is going to have a whole lot less impact on OST or OKW due to many squads having a single damage dealing weapon on one model. Another thing to note is Soviet Sniper will arrive on the field by the same time as OST sniper if both purchased at the same time UNTIL you realized OST has another squad already building due to 80 MP. That means more map control and early game advantage to OST.


You can argue that Soviet Sniper does it to OST in early game but then you remember he has a rate of fire for 4 man squads which means he will be doing bleed but not enough to make OST fight a uphill battle all game because he is designed for 4 man squads. OST Sniper on the other hand was made for 6 man squads. Which results in him bleeding out these smaller squads out the arse. These 5 & 4 man BASELINE squads of USF and UKF which are expensive as hell to build and reinforce. This doesn't include USF and UKF FOUR man weapon teams that cost a arm and leg to reinforce too! (.50cal being 35 and you can most likely bet those UKF 4 man weapon crews will be expensive to reinforce too!) He is made for fighting against mainly CHEAP units right? But oh wait, we have one Allied Faction that is entirely made up of expensive troops that can't afford any bleed mid to late game *cough* USF *Cough* and going to have an even MORE expensive Allied faction coming. OST sniper is always effective against both Allied armies and will be EVEN more against the third coming around.

One last thing is how crazy good he'll be early game. USF and UKF are in the same boat when it comes down to losing a squad member and reducing damage. Instantly taking out a fifth (Rifles) and fourth (Infantry Section) of combat power when fighting those tough, damage dealing German squads? Oh wait, Soviet sniper does that but he has a slower rate of fire compared to OST sniper that takes one, two, three in a short amount of time. Picking off high cost troops that are almost as expensive ( Rifle 28) and even more expensive (Infantry Section 35) than Grenadiers (30). Did I mention that OST can not give a bloody care in the world thanks to that 80 MP since they'll get that second squad same or somewhat barely less time than USF bring in a second Rifle squad? Or what will be the case in UKF as well?

Imagine if UKF sniper had nearly the same rate of fire will you? You imagine the rage against him? But oh you can counter him with light vehicles and such and just learn to counter him. He has to fight a mainline 5 man squad so his rate of fire is okay and perfectly fine! (aka Volksgrenadiers squad) I really just want Relic to put UKF sniper near OST rate of fire level so all those players saying his rate of fire is fine or should be toned down slightly will really begin to see how good OST sniper is. I just don't see how people can say OST rate of fire is fine. Like Katitof said about US sniper being downright despicable against PE yet it WILL be worse now due to snares, 222 (that doesn't cost anymore munitions meaning another tellar to one shot that light vehicle), and OST being good in early game now due to all the changes they received.


I understand people want to keep him useful and that is fine. But look at what happened with the Sturmtiger, no one built it besides a rare few. But it got buffed quite a bit and now YOU GET A STURMTIGER, YOU GET A STURMTIGER, EVERYONE GETS A STURMTIGER! Right now, OST Sniper he is just too damn powerful against USF and will pretty much make UKF irrevent in 1v1s when they come around. I rather have a unit that can be useful in some situations while mostly be somewhat effective than a unit that is extremely powerful choice is almost every game, especially against UKF & USF.

In this rant of mine I hope it proved a point and I do want to state that I have no ill will toward those of different opinions.


Where the bloody bollocks is Cruzz!? I really want to see his opinion on this. He

Total HP is not important, getting insta-wiped by mortars is the problem. Even with 41 HP they might get wiped by a stray shot, but Ost sniper won't.


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I have a question though, if the problem for Ost sniper is his insta-wipe potential, can't they just add some kind of explosion resistance factor to his stats? Is it technically possible? This way they can nerf his HP.

Then give each model 82 hp then but nerf the receive accuracy like 25%. the reason buff its hp is to prevent from 1 shot wipe from mortar.

I have a question though, if the problem for Ost sniper is his insta-wipe potential, can't they just add some kind of explosion resistance factor to his stats? Is it technically possible? This way they can nerf his HP.

Probably, but they could also just increase his target size so that he's easier to shoot.

Received accuracy for ignoring AoE explosion damage?

High HP pool to ignore AoE explosion damage,
increased recieved accuracy for vulnerability to small arms fire despite large HP pool.

What?
3 Volks - MG ; 4 Volks (into JLI/Falls) ; 3 Volks - Kubel. I've seen like 1/15 double Sturms for every other type of opening. Never more than 2.

SU sniper is good against OH, when you can force retreats on squads. Against OKW a "wall" of Volks backed up by anything else is enough to force him to back up after the volley. When people say "rush them with Obers", it means just putting a Volk in the front and charge forward. It follows the same principle of playing with Osstruppen as OH (which is in fact better, cause you have a high damage long range unit which can shoot on the move).

-------------------------------------------

Since the best solutions are not possible (Damage tables or different Rof against dif squad sizes) i'll go with this:

OH sniper:
-Lower the cost to 340mp
-Lower RoF by 1s/2s
(Slightly altering the cooldown multi n/m/f)
(Still like 2s faster than SU sniper. Account also that you have a 10 mag vs 5mag)
-Add RA to account for the 82hp

SU sniper:
-Make flares vet 0 again
-Vet 1, while stationary and in cover, get increase LOS (60). Look, the spotter is not useless!

If the spotter model dies, the increased LOS should be gone as well.

So let me get this straight. OST can have a sniper that is fair (certainly effective in case against Soviets due to survivability, veteran 1 incendiary round, and great camo. ) against one Allied faction but is extremely effective, dare I say broken, against both other Allied factions? While on the other hand Soviets have a sniper that is somewhat ineffective against OKW? What the bloody hell! I am going to rant because it is tiresome to be fighting OST as both Soviets and USF with that sniper. I even bloody disregard him as OST, my favorite faction, just because how powerful he is.

So lets start shall we hmm?

He has 82 hp meaning RNG bombs can't one shot him and giving him insane survivability to small arms fire WITH a camo bonus that allows him to simply cloak away from enemy infantry. Case in point is Soviet sniper camo. You can deal damage to Soviet Sniper since he decamo out of cover and you get some seconds. OST Sniper? A half second or so as he simply walks away. This means any chasing means he is damn near immune to infantry fire as they try to force him off the field. This doesn't include having to deal with Grenadiers, HMGs, Pioneers, and mortars up your arse. Oh wait he also has great durability too, not to mention his great veterancy 1 ability. His camo being so great was due to the fact he was previously fragile and if he got caught out he would be quickly gun downed. But now he was 82 HP combined with that camo he is damn hard to kill. Soviet Sniper one advantage over OST was the fact of two models and greater durability. What does he have now? Being squisher and worst in every way. (Rightly so with concerns to stats at least given Soviet Sniper being designed around one faction with almost every squad being 4 man.) Funny how OST sniper got increased of HP due to be fragile or being RNG bombed yet Soviet Sniper can and does all the time due to amazing German mortar and extremely high DPS OKW units.

Veterancy 1 ability is damn near broken thanks to STUNNING enemy infantry AND getting another shot off meaning you can quickly have a 6 or 5 man squad go down to only 3 or so in SECONDS. Sure you can say its 45 munitions but almost instantly making a squad combat ineffective with one sniper? Guess what that does to USF with their high reinforcement cost and which will be even worst for UKF?


You argue OST sniper needs a high rate of fire to be effective against Soviets when you realized that OSt has a extremely effective, cheap mortar that hard counters all Allied weapons. Even bloody other mortars and even 380 MP Howitzers of USF! Even the bloody 120mm which costs more is worst in terms of damage caused. At least it does have a large radius and range. But anyway on back topic. Conscripts don't have a single model with all the DPS on it (*cough* LMG Grenadiers *cough*) that each model plucked off hurts Conscripts damage. Just like Shocks troops who get a sixth of their power instantly plucked off. Only Soviet unit that won't be affected it Guards but just like Shocks their expensive to reinforce which limits their use on the field. OST sniper is good against weapon teams (especially poor USF again due to 4 man weapon teams that cost you a arm and a leg to reinforce.) but he is great against Soviets due to that fact only a few Soviet units have that who damage dealing model. (Penals with Flamethrower which are fragile as bollocks, Guards, and.... and...... 4 man Combat Engineers? Oh lets no forget those damage dealing Partisans!) So that Soviet Sniper is going to have a whole lot less impact on OST or OKW due to many squads having a single damage dealing weapon on one model. Another thing to note is Soviet Sniper will arrive on the field by the same time as OST sniper if both purchased at the same time UNTIL you realized OST has another squad already building due to 80 MP. That means more map control and early game advantage to OST.


You can argue that Soviet Sniper does it to OST in early game but then you remember he has a rate of fire for 4 man squads which means he will be doing bleed but not enough to make OST fight a uphill battle all game because he is designed for 4 man squads. OST Sniper on the other hand was made for 6 man squads. Which results in him bleeding out these smaller squads out the arse. These 5 & 4 man BASELINE squads of USF and UKF which are expensive as hell to build and reinforce. This doesn't include USF and UKF FOUR man weapon teams that cost a arm and leg to reinforce too! (.50cal being 35 and you can most likely bet those UKF 4 man weapon crews will be expensive to reinforce too!) He is made for fighting against mainly CHEAP units right? But oh wait, we have one Allied Faction that is entirely made up of expensive troops that can't afford any bleed mid to late game *cough* USF *Cough* and going to have an even MORE expensive Allied faction coming. OST sniper is always effective against both Allied armies and will be EVEN more against the third coming around.

One last thing is how crazy good he'll be early game. USF and UKF are in the same boat when it comes down to losing a squad member and reducing damage. Instantly taking out a fifth (Rifles) and fourth (Infantry Section) of combat power when fighting those tough, damage dealing German squads? Oh wait, Soviet sniper does that but he has a slower rate of fire compared to OST sniper that takes one, two, three in a short amount of time. Picking off high cost troops that are almost as expensive ( Rifle 28) and even more expensive (Infantry Section 35) than Grenadiers (30). Did I mention that OST can not give a bloody care in the world thanks to that 80 MP since they'll get that second squad same or somewhat barely less time than USF bring in a second Rifle squad? Or what will be the case in UKF as well?

Imagine if UKF sniper had nearly the same rate of fire will you? You imagine the rage against him? But oh you can counter him with light vehicles and such and just learn to counter him. He has to fight a mainline 5 man squad so his rate of fire is okay and perfectly fine! (aka Volksgrenadiers squad) I really just want Relic to put UKF sniper near OST rate of fire level so all those players saying his rate of fire is fine or should be toned down slightly will really begin to see how good OST sniper is. I just don't see how people can say OST rate of fire is fine. Like Katitof said about US sniper being downright despicable against PE yet it WILL be worse now due to snares, 222 (that doesn't cost anymore munitions meaning another tellar to one shot that light vehicle), and OST being good in early game now due to all the changes they received.


I understand people want to keep him useful and that is fine. But look at what happened with the Sturmtiger, no one built it besides a rare few. But it got buffed quite a bit and now YOU GET A STURMTIGER, YOU GET A STURMTIGER, EVERYONE GETS A STURMTIGER! Right now, OST Sniper he is just too damn powerful against USF and will pretty much make UKF irrevent in 1v1s when they come around. I rather have a unit that can be useful in some situations while mostly be somewhat effective than a unit that is extremely powerful choice is almost every game, especially against UKF & USF.

In this rant of mine I hope it proved a point and I do want to state that I have no ill will toward those of different opinions.


Where the bloody bollocks is Cruzz!? I really want to see his opinion on this. He

Calm down now, we all know the Ost sniper is performing better right now. But remember, this was implemented when Ostheer early game was a joke and needed die hard improvements to not be stomped by USF and Soviet early game. It was a move by Relic that made little to no sense, but hey it is here now.

Since we see the soviet sniper pretty much underperforming, I don't think it is wise to suddenly overnerf the Ostheer sniper so that it too is pretty much useless again. Perhaps we should improve the Russian sniper's veteran abilities, why not add an incendiary round as well? Or a tripwire mine that does enough damage to kill one or two units (only one will be allowed at a time)?

Remember, the Soviet snipers were altered because of the small squad sizes of the Ostheer faction. Like I have said before, increase the Ostheer squad sizes to 5 and improve the Soviet snipers so they are equal to Ostheer sniper. Keep the Ostheer squad's dps the same with 5 man as it was with 4, meaning a total dps of 4 men with the now 5 model count.