SU-76 issues

I think people are forgetting that while Stug is good assault gun with a Good AT and mediocre AI, it does not have the barrage and CANT FIGHT AT GUNS
The problem is when in team games the soviets just pile the SU76's and barrage the hell out of everything along with your tanks getting penetrated like hell.

It is even worse if they have guards because of the mark target and buttoning to protect the SU76's

I think people are forgetting that while Stug is good assault gun with a Good AT and mediocre AI, it does not have the barrage and CANT FIGHT AT GUNS
The problem is when in team games the soviets just pile the SU76's and barrage the hell out of everything along with your tanks getting penetrated like hell.

It is even worse if they have guards because of the mark target and buttoning to protect the SU76's

So much this. I dont mind the SU 76 beeing a good AT platform, but certain people drasticly downplay the AI capabilities of it, that has to change.

the su-76 has pretty much always been a good rush vehicle against static infantry heavy play. now it's good against vehicles too. they didn't remove any of the core weakness though, it still dies easily and is usually a waste against moving infantry. i think the only real question there is about it now is whether or not it comes a bit too early/too fast.

the su-76 has pretty much always been a good rush vehicle against static infantry heavy play. now it's good against vehicles too. they didn't remove any of the core weakness though, it still dies easily and is usually a waste against moving infantry. i think the only real question there is about it now is whether or not it comes a bit too early/too fast.

This is pretty much sums up the Su-76. Its a spammable glass canon for the sov, its not broken unit and its also not a worthless one. The timings of when units should come out is still relatively new so it won't be perfect right now and is probably the only thing that needs to be changed.

The main issue of the SU-76 is that it does nearly the same job as the SU-85, a more expensive in both tech and cost. This doesn't include the timing of it either. You can argue durability, rate of fire, damage, and focus vision come into play but when looking further it comes rather flat. Durability is indeed important but that almost goes to tank expected to fight on the front line. For most Tank Destroyers (excluding well armoured or high hp ones) are meant to behind the line supporting with their range advantage. Durability is more of fail safe if you fail to notice a ambush, reckless with it, or somehow got flanked. Rarely I lose SU-76s due to it's 60 range and screening and spotting with troops. Any Tank that gets too aggressive is almost certainly destroyed with one shot and one (or more) anti-tank grenades to reduce its chance of escape from becoming an burning wreck.

For rate of fire it is clear a veteran 3 SU-85 has a withering one that can wear down any tank but this relates to damage. How so? Because you can get two SU-76s for a decent price increase. If I recall correctly two SU-76s cost 560 MP & 150 fuel (280 MP & 75 FU each) a single SU-85 costs 340 MP & 120 FU. For only 220 MP and 30 FU more I have a small force that can easily harass any tanks off the field expect only the heaviest Tank Destroyers. Firing two shots compared to one of a single SU-85. On one hand yes you have to micro two tanks but you can set one key for both of them. Last note on damage is once a SU-76 hit veterancy 2 they need one less shot to take down a enemy tank with heavy tank beings the only exceptions (Note: Panther will require same number of shots from both Tank Destroyers) which hurts the SU-85 one solid advantage. (Granted SU-85 needs one less shot to take out any heavy but you have two SU-76 remember?)

The last I find amusing but I can see why is a plus. Focus vision is a good trait being able to spot for oneself without relaying another unit while being less micro intensive. However, Soviets have two great non-doctrinal tools to scout with. Snipers & Mortar flares. With these tools you can easily spot a good deal of the battlefield, not trading spotting range for decreased mobility.

One final note is that the SU-76 more versatile with its AI barrage.

I love the new SU-76 as previous user of it before its buff. Today it is a fine Tank Destroyer that performs its job well. That being said it need some tweaking to let the SU-85 be a more viable and worthy option again. (Not saying it doesn't work, just feels not worth buying)
Teching tier 4 I still don't get the SU-85 as I'll have two SU-76 by that time with a T-34 or Katy on the way to handle the infantry, emplacements, etc.

Reducing range would give a clear cut advantage to the SU-85 as this would mean a SU-76 would be forced closer, exposing itself and leaving it more vulnerable to a well executed rush.

Reducing penetration would work as well it being mainly focus against medium tank and below with the SU-85 being built for Panther and heavy tanks above.

Show Spoiler

+1 really good post. Thanks for posting this.

It really did sum up really well what I was trying to say.

now forgive the ignorance, but im not sure if the barrage is a muni cost or free. if free, why not add a cost similar to the zis.

perhaps if that is not the right fix then make the barrage cooldown a bit longer.

i do think the barrage should not be free and im pretty sure it is. make it cost them, even though the sovs never are short of muni, and it will be better.

now forgive the ignorance, but im not sure if the barrage is a muni cost or free. if free, why not add a cost similar to the zis.

Because ZiS barrage have much shorter cooldown and is more accurate.
Give it 30 second cooldown and you can add muni cost.

Another reason, not a single vehicle with default barrage option have a cost attached to it, which only makes it consistent.

perhaps if that is not the right fix then make the barrage cooldown a bit longer.

i do think the barrage should not be free and im pretty sure it is. make it cost them, even though the sovs never are short of muni, and it will be better.

Its already on one of the longest cooldowns with lowest performance in game.

If you think the barrage of SU-76 should not be free, there isn't a reason why you would think its OK for MHT, pwerfer, katy, priest, stuka etc barrages being free as well.

Its called consistency.

ATM, its essentially a TD/Assualt that has decent AI due to barrage that comes rather early in the game as well. Gameplaywise - its bad if it can last into lategame if heavy tanks are sent in. If SU-76s were to flank heavy tanks/Panthers and kill them that way, I'd be okay with that. But penning frontally is a big problem. For instance, the KT in VCoH couldn't be killed reliably by a pack M10s or M18s from the front. But if they flanked the KT, then it would be killable. I think these kind of mechanics are good for the game.

The m10's in coh1 were fast, the su76 is slow. Both have comparable health. So u expect the su76 to be able to circle strafe heavy tanks!?!?!? If at infantry or the SU76 is flanked by a tank it is dead.

Elchino, I liked your posts. One thing I don't agree with tho is Stug AI performance. The Stug mounted MG provides at best a bit of self defense. You don't use that mg to assault infantry or attack. The SU-76 however can blow holes in defences, decrew and squad wipe in a way that the Stug can't. Nothing wrong with that feature but just want to show that both AI imo are incomparable.

Personally what I think of the state of the SU-76 is that it has been left in a state where it had to compete against the SU-85. As such, the SU-85 was built far more in the past and buffs to SU-76 did not entice ppl to build the Su-76.

Now, it doesn't need to compete with the SU-85 anymore yet its viable even in the endgame so no one ever techs to T4 as relic intended. Changing the range could work but for a gun that was ineffective irl against panthers, tigers and so on I feel the Penn of the SU-76 reduced would be more accurate.

If Penn was reduced and teaching costs decrdecreased for Sovs or camo was added to SU-76, it would make the game a lot better than lel my unit I built in the 5th-10th minute can smash heavy breakthrough units in ways the SU-76 couldn't even deal with IRL

Pen enough to deal with mediums while not so effective against heavies. Sure.

The m10's in coh1 were fast, the su76 is slow. Both have comparable health. So u expect the su76 to be able to circle strafe heavy tanks!?!?!? If at infantry or the SU76 is flanked by a tank it is dead.

The SU-76 is only .7 slower than a M10. The SU-76 is a lot of things but it is very much not slow.

Because ZiS barrage have much shorter cooldown and is more accurate.
Give it 30 second cooldown and you can add muni cost.

The ZiS gun barrage does only 80 damage compared to the SU-76's 120.

Another reason, not a single vehicle with default barrage option have a cost attached to it, which only makes it consistent.

....it cost's munitions to barrage with a Jadgtiger (which only fires a few shells and does 40 more damage than an SU-76 barrage.)

Its already on one of the longest cooldowns with lowest performance in game.

obviously doing 120 damage which can easily 1 shot or kill a squad with a direct hit for free on a mobile fast platform is just preforming low.

If you think the barrage of SU-76 should not be free, there isn't a reason why you would think its OK for MHT, pwerfer, katy, priest, stuka etc barrages being free as well.

none of those things also can fight enemy heavies, mediums or most armor in general. like why would you even compared a dedicated artillery vehicle to a TD.

The ZiS gun barrage does only 80 damage compared to the SU-76's 120.

It still have worse scatter and 3x longer cooldown.

....it cost's munitions to barrage with a Jadgtiger (which only fires a few shells and does 40 more damage than an SU-76 barrage.)

Since reading is hard, let me write again:

Another reason, not a single vehicle with default barrage option have a cost attached to it, which only makes it consistent.

Last time I checked, JT didn't had barrage as default skill, but a vet one.

obviously doing 120 damage which can easily 1 shot or kill a squad with a direct hit for free on a mobile fast platform is just preforming low.

AI barrage kills infantry, confirmed OP.
More news at 11.

Unless you bunched up and were killed with first shot, there is NO reason or way that anyone with most basic awareness would be touched by the barrage.

none of those things also can fight enemy heavies, mediums or most armor in general. like why would you even compared a dedicated artillery vehicle to a TD.

Sturmtiger can.
Also, SU-76 is a hybrid of AT gun and dedicated artillery.
Just like it was used historically.

It can do both, but for both there are better options, katy got much better barrage, SU-85 while bit up atm is much better TD.

The SU-85 isn't a more cost effective TD which is the problem. The SU-76 isn't OP in a vacuum it's that in the current meta it has replaced almost all other forms of AT for Soviets because it's mobile, fast, has a decent turn speed while retaining 60 range. Really it's biggest disadvantage is it's lower damage which doesn't matter when you can get a lot of them.

It still have worse scatter and 3x longer cooldown.

It has worse scatter, but when it hits is more likely to do more damage.

Another reason, not a single vehicle with default barrage option have a cost attached to it, which only makes it consistent.

Okay? Why is this a distinction that needs to be made?

Last time I checked, JT didn't had barrage as default skill, but a vet one.

A useless vet 1 skill at that.

Unless you bunched up and were killed with first shot, there is NO reason or way that anyone with most basic awareness would be touched by the barrage.

It can barrage out farther than you can see with basic sight range. Am I supposed to be able to predict the future to avoid the first couple of shells?

Sturmtiger can.
Also, SU-76 is a hybrid of AT gun and dedicated artillery.
Just like it was used historically.

A Sturmtiger is the most unique vehicle in the game, comparing anything to it is silly. But if you insist the Sturmtiger is doctrinal, limited to 1, and comes late in the game.

And history has nothing to do with unit performance outside of the most basic aspects. The SU-76 doesn't need the barrage to be good.

afaik the zis barrage does 160 damage but i don't have anyway to check. if someone can look in the game files i would be interested.

afaik the zis barrage does 160 damage but i don't have anyway to check. if someone can look in the game files i would be interested.

The SU-76 Barrage does 120 while the ZiS barrage does 80. But face value isn't always an accurate picture.

Although the SU-76 has a higher max damage and higher minimum damage and larger area of effect, the ZiS-3 barrage has a superior damage curve resulting in it doing more damage than the SU-76 at all ranges*. The ZiS-3 barrage is also much more accurate, and fires faster. In conclusion, the ZiS-3 barrage is undoubtedly superior to the SU-76 barrage.

*SU-76's max damage is higher, but anything over 80 doesn't matter when firing at infantry. On the opposite end, it does just 2 more damage at the very edges.

Because ZiS barrage have much shorter cooldown and is more accurate.
Give it 30 second cooldown and you can add muni cost.

Another reason, not a single vehicle with default barrage option have a cost attached to it, which only makes it consistent.


Its already on one of the longest cooldowns with lowest performance in game.

If you think the barrage of SU-76 should not be free, there isn't a reason why you would think its OK for MHT, pwerfer, katy, priest, stuka etc barrages being free as well.

Its called consistency.

Jagdtiger barrage cost monition - so mutch for consistency

buff su-85 and no problem

IMO Barrage is not an issue. The SU-76 is a multi-role platform unlike the Stug where if you wanted AI performance, you needed to mount the short gun (Stug A). If you used the long gun (Stug G) you had far better AT performance.

Barrage can hurt, but personally, I don't mind this. Its what makes the SU-76 unique and it is what makes the soviets unique. I do not mind if it keeps its AI performance.

However, compared to history, its AT performance is simply too strong. Panthers, Tigers and Elefants can be dealt with by the 3-4 SU-76s that have been built at that stage of the game, which is ridiculous. How can a unit that you start building in the first 5-10 minutes of the game that can be massed, has good AI and no historical basis for it kill the heaviest German tanks in the game? I don't mind if the SU-76 deals with P4s, stugs etc but there's a serious problem when it can deal with Panthers, Tigers and Elefants from the front.

Once again, history may not be used to fully balance the game, but there has to be a limit to how much artistic licence can be used. Otherwise, it becomes Company of Placeholders as someone called it earlier.

I do agree that they can easily kill a panther if they are in numbers or supported by support weapons etc. but from the front armor it will also deflect allot its more like 50/50. but you can easily counter these Su-76s with either a pak - shrecks or just flanking it they are quite slow in rotating.

50/50 is still far too high for a gun that could never really deal with a Panther frontally IRL. It may have had a fighting chance with APCR but not a very high one.

Quite slow in rotating from what I've found, but not in reverse. Infantry I find can't catch up to the SU-76s without abilities like inspired assault. And catching them out with Paks/Raks would most of the time require you to be on the defence, not on the offence.