Been playing a bit of OKW of late and since SU-76 was moved to T3, it has been spammed a lot.
I get prior to July 21st SU-76s were very underplayed and it may be able to work at tier 3, but I'm not complaining about that. (Definitely strong for Soviets)
I'm complaining about the ridiculous Penn the SU-76 has. When I try to send a Panther against SU-76 packs, they seem to cut through the armour like butter.
I just find it ridiculous that a low velocity 76mm she'll can go through a Panther frontally.
Any thoughts on this? I'd like to see how you Axis players handle SU-76s
SU-76 issues
30 Jul 2015, 03:36 AM
#1
Posts: 928
Had fun doing this earlier
30 Jul 2015, 03:39 AM
#2
Posts: 600
I think it does have a similar if not the same pen as the SU85... which if you as me is abit overkill. Since the traditional method of AT guns to kill tank destroyers doesnt work since they will barrage you.
best option is bait them with something and lure them out to be flanked by something else. Same with SU85s.
E.g (on an open map)
Send 1 P4 or P3 round the back of them so they turn to shoot it, then attack their front with a panther, or some heavier AT.
But since their HP buff tbh they should of recived a slight fuel price increase like the StuG did.
best option is bait them with something and lure them out to be flanked by something else. Same with SU85s.
E.g (on an open map)
Send 1 P4 or P3 round the back of them so they turn to shoot it, then attack their front with a panther, or some heavier AT.
But since their HP buff tbh they should of recived a slight fuel price increase like the StuG did.
30 Jul 2015, 03:46 AM
#3
Posts: 928
It's ridiculous, 85mm guns were placed on SU-85s and T-34-85s after finding the 76mm hd lots of trouble against, you guessed it, panthers and tigers.
By the time you get a panther and a p4, I find my opponent has 3 SU-76s so its unflankable, especially with OKW with reduced fuel income.
By the time you get a panther and a p4, I find my opponent has 3 SU-76s so its unflankable, especially with OKW with reduced fuel income.
Had fun doing this earlier
30 Jul 2015, 03:53 AM
#4
Posts: 1122
Use jagdpanzer, it absolutely destroys less than 3 76s with some shrecks assistance for sight/damage. If anything OKW should not complain about su76s.
Another very good counter is CAMO rakketens.
However i can agree that su76s are slightly underpriced for their performance.
Another very good counter is CAMO rakketens.
However i can agree that su76s are slightly underpriced for their performance.
30 Jul 2015, 04:12 AM
#5
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Racktens versus barrage spammers is kinda eh, but JPIV's are p awesome especially if you can get it up to vet 2. Honestly the most powerful thing Iv found is just using PIV's with JPIV support since the PIV's AI is far better than the Panthers and the JPIV's AT is far better than the Panthers.
Much better just to get a medic HQ + JPIV if you have 175 fuel to blow.
Much better just to get a medic HQ + JPIV if you have 175 fuel to blow.
30 Jul 2015, 04:24 AM
#6
Posts: 1122
Racktens versus barrage spammers is kinda eh
Another very good counter is CAMO rakketens.
Capslock was clearly not enough.
30 Jul 2015, 04:30 AM
#7
Posts: 2053
The only issue with camo raketens is the two guys that arent using the raketen will shoot their rifles and reveal the squad when the raketen is using prioritize vehicle.
30 Jul 2015, 04:45 AM
#8
Posts: 19
The only issue with camo raketens is the two guys that arent using the raketen will shoot their rifles and reveal the squad when the raketen is using prioritize vehicle.
Yes, they shouldn't shoot if you selected to only attack vehicles.
30 Jul 2015, 04:56 AM
#9
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Capslock was clearly not enough.
The only issue with camo raketens is the two guys that arent using the raketen will shoot their rifles and reveal the squad when the raketen is using prioritize vehicle.
Camo is good on the defense. If you want to push a SU-76 player off a point camo doesn't really do much for you. Also racktens tend to clump their crews so killing them with artillery isn't that hard.
JPIV + PIV combo is the most effective as the PIV can flank while the JPIV shoots. Typically people will forget to pay attention because they are distract by the PIV and then be ripped apart by the JPIV.
Like yeah obviously rackten spam can counter any armor in theory but due to it's vulnerability to explosives (and the 60 range on the SU-76) it's not ideal.
30 Jul 2015, 05:25 AM
#10
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
su76 have pretty crappy gun traverse, so if u execute a good flank you can screw one over before they get a shot off on you.
30 Jul 2015, 06:47 AM
#11
Posts: 48
Been playing a bit of OKW of late and since SU-76 was moved to T3, it has been spammed a lot.
I get prior to July 21st SU-76s were very underplayed and it may be able to work at tier 3, but I'm not complaining about that. (Definitely strong for Soviets)
I'm complaining about the ridiculous Penn the SU-76 has. When I try to send a Panther against SU-76 packs, they seem to cut through the armour like butter.
I just find it ridiculous that a low velocity 76mm she'll can go through a Panther frontally.
Any thoughts on this? I'd like to see how you Axis players handle SU-76s
Oh my goodness, the humanity!!!! An allied tank that can actually kill a German tank, this needs a nerf immediately!!!!
/sarcasm
All kidding aside, I agree man. The SU/76 can hit with the best of them and does come at a very affordable price for it's usefulness against tanks. However, try hitting it with a shrek...or two...and you won't be saying how powerful it us anymore - because it will be dead. Lol. Let the allies have this one for a little...we struggle enough as is penetrating German armor - please don't take this away from us.
.
30 Jul 2015, 07:25 AM
#12
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Been playing a bit of OKW of late and since SU-76 was moved to T3, it has been spammed a lot.
I get prior to July 21st SU-76s were very underplayed and it may be able to work at tier 3, but I'm not complaining about that. (Definitely strong for Soviets)
I'm complaining about the ridiculous Penn the SU-76 has. When I try to send a Panther against SU-76 packs, they seem to cut through the armour like butter.
I just find it ridiculous that a low velocity 76mm she'll can go through a Panther frontally.
Any thoughts on this? I'd like to see how you Axis players handle SU-76s
1) ZiS-3 gun and F-34(the one T34/76 uses) are two completely different guns with different penetration capabilities, both in game and IRL, nothing really off here that ZiS-3 gun is better then F-34.
2) Don't drive tanks straight against a wall of tank destroyers, that is a common sense, Panther have a high speed and turret for a reason. You do not use tanks against TDs, you use AT infantry, AT guns and bigger TDs.
3) Realism have nothing to do with game balance.
4) What if I told you that panther isn't magical armor IWIN button and you'll need different vehicles against different opponent armor compositions?
Its a light tank destroyer, light describes the unit durability(and damage indirectly), not the intended targets here.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Jul 2015, 08:17 AM
#13
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
With OKW you can at least use the JP4. With Ostheer you are kinda fucked; you just have to hope the opponent fucks up.
30 Jul 2015, 08:24 AM
#14
Posts: 49
Yep, the SU76 is a real beast now - super cheap, great pen and nice dmg output + area denial/OKW base destroyer when used in groups - when playing yesterday I got 3 of those in 2v2 and well...been floating fuel cause I didn't need anything else.
At the end of the match they were still alive and vet3
Could use some toning down imho.
At the end of the match they were still alive and vet3
Could use some toning down imho.
When I say jump, you jump! When I say fight, you fight! When I say "die for your country" - you will certainly die!
30 Jul 2015, 08:29 AM
#15
Posts: 1653
Nerf the penetration and it will be lots better. The Penetration is just the biggest problem
30 Jul 2015, 08:35 AM
#16
8 Posts: 2470
no, don't nerf the pen. soviets already have enough shitty base units. if it needs a nerf, which i haven't seen it enough to make a judgement on that, then increase the fuel cost.
30 Jul 2015, 08:44 AM
#17
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Nerf the penetration and it will be lots better. The Penetration is just the biggest problem
The biggest problem is some people are so used to it sucking, that they are shocked to see it can actually do something now.
It got stat and cost increase, its not as effective as SU-85 and won't be its replacement, but it allows you to stick to light armor play, opening a whole new gameplay possibility.
Its supposed to be effective when spammed and people are surprised that it is.
You can't rush med tanks and roll over it any longer, adapt and use other units, neither ost nor OKW lack counters to it, its helpless against shrecks.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Jul 2015, 08:51 AM
#18
Posts: 1653
The biggest problem is some people are so used to it sucking, that they are shocked to see it can actually do something now.
It got stat and cost increase, its not as effective as SU-85 and won't be its replacement, but it allows you to stick to light armor play, opening a whole new gameplay possibility.
Its supposed to be effective when spammed and people are surprised that it is.
You can't rush med tanks and roll over it any longer, adapt and use other units, neither ost nor OKW lack counters to it, its helpless against shrecks.
It's not that I think that I can't adjust/adapt to the unit, but it penetrates the KT/Elefant/Tiger (go further) way too much. Even had 5 SU-76 killing my Jagdtiger on it's front armour Kappa
30 Jul 2015, 08:57 AM
#19
Posts: 656
It's not that I think that I can't adjust/adapt to the unit, but it penetrates the KT/Elefant/Tiger (go further) way too much. Even had 5 SU-76 killing my Jagdtiger on it's front armour Kappa
I think it is perfectly acceptable that 1400MP and 375FU worth of light tank destroyer can kill a JT from the front. Especially when you consider that the JT is capable of 2 hitting any SU76 that dares get into range.
If anything needs to be adjusted on the SU76 it is probably the barrage timer. If the SU76 couldn't barrage as often it would be more vulnerable to AT guns.
30 Jul 2015, 09:03 AM
#20
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It's not that I think that I can't adjust/adapt to the unit, but it penetrates the KT/Elefant/Tiger (go further) way too much. Even had 5 SU-76 killing my Jagdtiger on it's front armour Kappa
Well, its supposed to.
Its exactly the same ZiS-3 gun as the T2 one therefore same penetration.
The damage is still lower and you need more shots to achieve same effect, but you trade damage for increased mobility over ZiS-3.
JT have huge armor value and there is only 40% chance at best for SUs to penetrate it, but it doesn't really have huge RoF, while 5 SU-76s do.
I would also expect some kick from 375 fuel worth of tank destroyers.
Obviously a mass of smaller TDs will overpower single big one, 4 SU-85s also can kill Ele.
5 Pumas would also kill IS-2 or ISU. I don't see anything wrong with it.
More expensive doesn't equal invincible to less expensive.
SU-76 is a tank destroyer. It kills armor, amassed its really effective, just like any other unit when you mass it.
Hell, have you seen the balance blog post of PQ explaining the power of heavies vs mediums?
It explains it great way, 1 heavy might kill a med or two, but will succumb when certain amount of them attacks it. Same case with SU-76s.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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