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Update on beta patch by Jason Lee

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16 Jul 2015, 04:40 AM
#81
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 02:31 AMCieZ
Nice to see the community have respectful discussions about this stuff and relic listening to us :)

Cons definitely need some late game love. Maybe we can start a new topic about that where everyone provides some ideas? Starting with the removal of the extra received accuracy mod might be good. Then figuring out some sort of upgrade for them. Perhaps ptrs unlockable for fuel at the hq? And change tank hunters. Or even something like 1-2 DPs unlockable at the hq. Then buff doctrinal ppsh to not be a downgrade...

Anyways let's hear some ideas and get relic to make cons not awful late game.


I'm thinking in order to make them scale in the late game, Vet 2 and Vet 3 units should get stronger buffs...maybe to their received accuracy/armor.
16 Jul 2015, 05:00 AM
#82
avatar of _underscore
Donator 33

Posts: 322

I've always appreciated the way coh2 is balanced without resorting to 'target tables'. I guess if PTRS bonus damage is the only way to achieve desired results then everyone will support this change... but I don't think possibilities were exhausted tweaking accuracy values yet. Last time it had an incredibly massive accuracy buff which is why it's such a strong AI weapon. Surely backing off accuracy a little could have been the first step, without significantly harming AT performance. We haven't seen a middle-ground value in live yet. Perhaps it was tried in Alpha?
16 Jul 2015, 05:52 AM
#83
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I've always appreciated the way coh2 is balanced without resorting to 'target tables'. I guess if PTRS bonus damage is the only way to achieve desired results then everyone will support this change... but I don't think possibilities were exhausted tweaking accuracy values yet. Last time it had an incredibly massive accuracy buff which is why it's such a strong AI weapon. Surely backing off accuracy a little could have been the first step, without significantly harming AT performance. We haven't seen a middle-ground value in live yet. Perhaps it was tried in Alpha?


Lowering accuracy just makes the weapon less consistent. You would get instances where it kills an enemy in 2 seconds, and instances where it kills one in 10 seconds. Consistency is important, and Relic is on the right track with this change.

Another thing, Target Tables are bad for when the PTRS does more damage against Panzerfusiliers but less against Grenadiers. However doing more damage to Vehicles and less to Infantry is not a bad thing, as Infantry and Vehicles are both very different from each other.
16 Jul 2015, 06:03 AM
#84
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

I live the changes to the ptrs, hopefully we can see more of the same to reduce the instances of shreck/ Zook snipes.
16 Jul 2015, 06:20 AM
#85
avatar of rejfor

Posts: 101

What the hell are you doing Relic? Cons are worst core infantry in the game and you're making them even worse. German Ubersoldiers can't kill poor cons fast enough? Relic on the rescue!

Also I didn't understand - is PTRS buffed against vehicles or AT damage is same as before?
16 Jul 2015, 06:21 AM
#86
avatar of USFMain86

Posts: 27

So how will 2 222s fare vs other light vehicles. Will they beat a stuart or T-70?

Glad they listened though. I was the first to say they should make the 222 standard in the alpha.
I think Stuart could vs 2x 222 and win.2cm cannons don't pen Stuart very well at all
16 Jul 2015, 06:43 AM
#87
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

This had got to be the best thread... ever! Awesome to see these changes implemented. I can't wait to upgrade 251 with flamennwherfers right away like the good ole days.
16 Jul 2015, 06:52 AM
#88
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Finaly you can use the FHT again. It really kicked me in the nuts when they said you need BP2. So next to the 120 ammo + 200 - 30 fuel investment you've to make another huge investment to actually get it.
16 Jul 2015, 07:15 AM
#89
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I think Stuart could vs 2x 222 and win.2cm cannons don't pen Stuart very well at all


Did some quick unit vs unit tests. Stuart definately beats a pair of 222's, T-70 can go either way. 3 M3 Scout Cars or WC 51's beats a single 222, but just 2 will lose to a 222. An M8 may lose, but with skirts it's an effortless victory.

Overall, the 222 could use a 5-10 fuel increase, but otherwise this change is very good.
16 Jul 2015, 07:17 AM
#90
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Then you should provide patch notes

I prefer Relic style "imma do shit, you guess what" :snfBarton:

Speaking of conscripts, relic clearly doesn't want them to be anything else then vet feeders.
If not for the AT nade, we'd see them much less.
16 Jul 2015, 07:52 AM
#91
avatar of gnaggnoyil

Posts: 65

Great job Relic! Finally Relic begins to do something!
But...
251 Flame HT without Battle Phase 2 requirement?
R.I.P USF.
16 Jul 2015, 08:12 AM
#92
avatar of chipwreckt

Posts: 732


But...
251 Flame HT without Battle Phase 2 requirement?
R.I.P USF.


Dont forget USF can get Stuart really fast with the new tech changes, wich counters the 251 pretty hard.
16 Jul 2015, 08:36 AM
#93
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 609

Perhaps con squad sizes could increase late game but remain the same price (with cheaper reinforcement per model) representing the increasing soviet mobilisation and giving the human wave vibe. Vet gained per killed con would have to be less to avoid runaway vet for axis as they were mown down.

Maybe +1 model for tier 3 and +2 models at tier 4. Might be to confusing for the game system though.
16 Jul 2015, 08:43 AM
#94
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Guys, calm down. None of these changes are final.


Clearly the con sandbag nerf is an overnerf, their health should be around 300. Same with OKW sandbags and USF sandbags.


Cons will probably need something else in order to make them just a little bit more useful.
16 Jul 2015, 09:04 AM
#95
avatar of Raindrop

Posts: 105

The FHT seems to be realy good, its an expensive short range vehcile so it shouldn't be a problem.
16 Jul 2015, 09:07 AM
#96
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440

The cons can't even build proper sand bags now. Yay. If so give them an upgrade of SVTs and improve their vet abilities.
16 Jul 2015, 09:23 AM
#97
avatar of Porillio

Posts: 66

im like



Me playin post patch doe
16 Jul 2015, 09:38 AM
#98
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

WOW awesome changes!!!!!
16 Jul 2015, 09:40 AM
#99
avatar of bämbabäm

Posts: 246

Relic OP :snfCHVGame:

Really nice to see how Relic improves (itself and the game)!
16 Jul 2015, 09:43 AM
#100
avatar of TheSleep3r

Posts: 670

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 08:36 AMArray
Perhaps con squad sizes could increase late game but remain the same price (with cheaper reinforcement per model) representing the increasing soviet mobilisation and giving the human wave vibe. Vet gained per killed con would have to be less to avoid runaway vet for axis as they were mown down.

Maybe +1 model for tier 3 and +2 models at tier 4. Might be to confusing for the game system though.


Why would you increase number of models if each one of those models is a mp drain and also still can't do shit.
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