Units which fail to gain veterancy for being too UP.

Units which are underperforming so much, they fail to gain veterancy.

SU ----- soviets
T-34/76: Thin front and weak pen, you never see any t34 above vet 2.
DShK: Low DPS relative to it's Slow ROF and long reload time.
KV-1: Having weak penetration makes it impossible for this unit to gain enough XP.
KV-8: Short range and burst duration and high XP requirements.
IS-2: Inaccurate, long reload time. Its only problem is frontal deflection and high HP.
Maxim: Is dead already.


OKW----- okw
Sturmpioneers: Bad design. High DPS while having low survivability. High XP requirements.
Kübelwagen: Bad design, available too early while being too fragile. Moving it to T2 and increasing range and HP would make it actually useful.
ZuFuss: Not UP, but the XP requirements are unrealistically high.
Sturmtiger: lol


Ostheer----- ostheer
Pioneers: Too fragile to participate in anything other than sweeping and repairing.
StuG III G: Can't penetrate anything.
Flakpanzer IV: Inaccurate and high XP requirements.
Panzerwerfer : Inaccurate and high XP requirements.


USF----- usf
Stuart: Not effective against anything.

I don't think failing to gain veterancy necessarily means the unit is underperforming;

We never see vet 5 kubels or sturms but I don't think that is really a problem, its not like they're bad or anything.
I doubt you'd find anyone who would say that the stuka zu fuss is underperforming; you can get vet in like 1-2 barrages.

I can only talk about OKW because I only play that faction.

This has probably been said over and over again but it'd be cool to see Engineer units get XP from sweeping mines. Currently you will only see Engineers/Pioneers get veterency with Flamers and their veterency bonuses don't even effect their combat.

I don't agree with:
-IS2: Use it as an AT unit, it's even very effective versus most heavies.

-Maxim: It's fine IMO.

-Sturmpioneers: they vet very fast early game when there is less chance of an insta-wipe, suppress with kuble and close in with Pios. They get to vet 2/3 early game and with that buff they can survive late game.

-Kuble: I've seen a lot of vet 2-3 Kubles both in games I play and in streams. After armor rolls in, Kuble is done for but that doesn't mean it should vet faster

-Ostwind: against blobbers, it's vet requirements are fine. I'm not saying the unit is perfectly fine itself, but I don't see any problem with XP requirement.

I agree with the rest, specially Sturmtiger.


Add Combat Engis to the list. CEs and Pios only gain vet if you give the flamers. I think both mine sweeping (as TheMachine said) and repairing should give them XP.

Many of the units you mentioned (T34, Maxim, DSHK, Sturmtiger) are in need of reworks, but some (IS-2, flakpaanzer) are fine.

The problem for all Soviet tanks is that vet 1 is a useless ability. In a faction designed around weaker but more numerous tanks that flank, giving more speed to their opponent at vet and them nothing is a real deciding point in the game. Soviet tanks need a way to use their vet 1 to help them get higher levels of vet, like blitz, not so they can cap 1 point to troll your opponent.

Panzerwerfer does not need vet changes it just needs to shoot slightly faster.

Honestly if you want to reduce Stuka vet requirements than it should lose creeping barrage as native ability. It should receive the same random scatter barrage as everyone else and then unlock creeping barrage.

Maxim ranks up much faster than the MG34 in my experience, also I've never even seen a leig past vet two.

Sturmtiger used to vet up quite reasonably when it could still target vehicles, too bad they made it borderline useless after removing it.

flamer pios get vet 3 pretty quickly.

Units that definitely need lower EXP requirements:

- Sturmtiger
- Le.IG
- maybe Pios/Combat Engineers

Most units are fine TBH.

brummbar, jaegers, kv8, command panzer 4, stormtroopers!!!,

Units which are underperforming so much, they fail to gain veterancy.

SU ----- soviets
T-34/76: Thin front and weak pen, you never see any t34 above vet 2.
DShK: Low DPS relative to it's Slow ROF and long reload time.
KV-1: Having weak penetration makes it impossible for this unit to gain enough XP.
KV-8: Short range and burst duration and high XP requirements.
IS-2: Inaccurate, long reload time. Its only problem is frontal deflection and high HP.
Maxim: Is dead already.


OKW----- okw
Sturmpioneers: Bad design. High DPS while having low survivability. High XP requirements.
Kübelwagen: Bad design, available too early while being too fragile. Moving it to T2 and increasing range and HP would make it actually useful.
ZuFuss: Not UP, but the XP requirements are unrealistically high.
Sturmtiger: lol


Ostheer----- ostheer
Pioneers: Too fragile to participate in anything other than sweeping and repairing.
StuG III G: Can't penetrate anything.
Flakpanzer IV: Inaccurate and high XP requirements.
Panzerwerfer : Inaccurate and high XP requirements.


USF----- usf
Stuart: Not effective against anything.

The KV1 has a much better ROF than the T34/76 while only being slightly slower but with much more health and armor. As a tank is perfectly fine for it's cost, but it should be a stock unit instead of a call in.

Most of the issues you highlighted about Anti-infantry tanks is just that the veterancy system is broken as anti infantry tanks will always be shooting as much cheaper units.

Stug III G are you kidding me? Mine reach vet2 nearly all the time. They are monsters vs inf and light vehicles, just use them when your opponent is stalling for heavies.

Vet comes pretty quick, then you have TWP (and skirts), so just back with a pak and they will even own T34s or shermans.

Keep them alive and they become perfect TWP carrier for your 1st Tiger.

SPs are fine aside from the odds of them being squad-wiped. I've vetted them up with good micro of them a fair amount, as it should be - actually keeping them all alive is the real hard part. Honestly, anything with reasonable AT potential vets fine - vehicles that do AI however, I think could do with reduced XP requirements across the board. I see full vet AI infantry units all the time but full vet AI vehicles are exceptionally rare.

I would very much like HMGs across the board get their XP gain compensated for suppressing units making them less accurate against those units, like getting a chuck of XP from suppressing units. They're the weapon teams at the most risk to get their XP with having to be closer to the front to do their stuff AND they reduce their own XP gain when they do their stuff, it just don't feel right.

Several things to consider:
-XP is only gained if damage is inflicted. This means that units like HMGs and Mortars will only gain XP if they damage or kill targets, not of they contributed in, say, suppressing a target or even absorbing damage taken from the enemy; units that TAKE tons of damage won't gain experience, not unless they were also giving it in the meantime.

- Since XP is related to damage dealt and no other factos, naturally units that fire slowly like barraging units will take forever to level up, and given their relative durability, means that more often you are either building more of the units because of losses or recrewing weapons because they get squad wiped.

-For many units the vet abilities and bonuses suck so the effort needed to preserve them is not considered worth it. I'm not going to prefer microing my T-34 over my other units if the reward is to just be able to capture points with the T-34.

-No synergy in XP gain from things like nearby units (with sole exception to USF officers) or doctrinal abilities or even mines; engineers don't gain XP for blowing up Tigers with mines, at least not since the last time I read up on that. And even if that's not true, the cost of a unit and munitions plus micro to create that scenario isn't worth the XP that would be gained.

-Unlike CoH1, which utilized FOUR different ways of veterancy, this game only has one. British units didn't gain veterancy but the officer units did, and gave large bonuses. Panzer Elite had shared XP, Wehrmacht bought their veterancy, and Americans use the classic kill-for-xp system. CoH2 uses only the US system and applies it to everyone.

-XP is only gained if damage is inflicted. This means that units like HMGs and Mortars will only gain XP if they damage or kill targets, not of they contributed in, say, suppressing a target or even absorbing damage taken from the enemy; units that TAKE tons of damage won't gain experience, not unless they were also giving it in the meantime.

I'm pretty sure they do receive experience from taking damage as well - doing damage gives 75% of it into experience, taking damage gives 25% of it into experience from what I recall and I don't think that has ever been changed since. Rarely, I have seen a basic infantry unit taking indirect fire in the backline get ranked up.

And you forget that vetaran units gives more XP.

And you forget that vetaran units gives more XP.

And are harder to hit after vet1.

I'm pretty sure they do receive experience from taking damage as well - doing damage gives 75% of it into experience, taking damage gives 25% of it into experience from what I recall and I don't think that has ever been changed since. Rarely, I have seen a basic infantry unit taking indirect fire in the backline get ranked up.

it was originally 50/50 but they changed it to 75/25 a couple of months ago. that's the only change i know of.

STUG VET IS THE BEST VET!!!
seriously, twp is among the best abilities in the game, and the skirts are cool!

sidebar: i like looking at your avatars as a sort of before and after story, when you post one after another.

ever since the patch my le.ig's are getting to at least 3.

I HONESTLY don't get the hate against the StuG's.
I find them very useful if you play heavy T3 as a support for your P4/Ostwinds. Sure you need Paks but I really am a StuG G fan.

Units I noticed taking ages to vet up are:

- LeIG (which I build almost every game, though I rarely get one to Vet 5 even after about 50 kills)
- Stuka zu Fuß (never ever reached Vet 4 with one, although > 80 kills)
- Command Panther
- Sdkfz Uhu

The last one is a joke, okay?

Show Spoiler

T-34/76: Use it more against infantry. It's issue is mainly how to survive rather than how to penetrate.
KV-1: Same here. I mainly call it in if I want a meatshield or something to deal with infantry. It's vets up quite nicely.
KV-8: The issue you pose is quite apparent in this unit. I always though it was because the enemy instantly retreats, but that might not be the case. If I have a vet2 KV-2 it means my opponent did something seriously wrong.
IS-2: It's quite fine.
Maxim: Agree ;p